TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Our range of 4mm scale wagon bodies and kits
tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:47 pm

I now have supplies of the bodies and underframe components for our re-run of this popular kit. If you are self-isolating why not get one or more of these to occupy a few hours! I also have available the re-run of the cattle wagon and our new open wagon kits. To help members and visitors to the Forum I will post details of these other kits separately.

Our 10-ton RY Pickering wagon is a typical Scottish traders wagon (private owner wagon for the English). This particular design was originally built for the Wilsons and Clyde Coal Company but was adopted by other colliery companies in the Lanarkshire, Fife and Lothians coal mining areas and was probably as near Pickering got to a standard design. I understand some were also built for customers in England.

The kit is based around a one-piece moulded resin body. The underframe components include:

Correct pattern buffers of two types, the ones with the larger flange go at the opening door end
NBR-style axle box and spring castings as used on most large orders for the wagons
Cast brake unit with brake shoes, hangers and push rods for one side as fitted as originally to these wagons
Brass etch with V hangers, brake levers and ratchets that can be used for one side brakes or as Morton brakes that were retro-fitted to many wagons to comply with new BoT regulations
Cast scale coupling hooks

To finish these wagons you will need etch brass w-irons of your own choice, bearing and wheels. You will also need some wire for the door hinges, the end door pivot bar and brake push rod safety loops. Details are given in the instruction sheets attached.

Please send orders to me by email at [email protected]. If you need more information contact me at this email address. Payment should be made by one of the methods set out in the second attachment. Paypal is easier and quicker for me, Sinclair and you so please use this method of you can.

And now down to the nitty-gritty - the prices. The complete kit including the underframe components as above is £15. CRA members qualify for a 10% discount making the price £13.50. CRA members can also purchase bodies only at £10 although I should point out that we do buy the components at discounted prices and this is reflected in the price.

To close this post I have included a photo of Dave John's models from the first batch to show you what is possible.

Tony B
RYP Wagon Instructions.jpg
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Instruction Sheet page 2.jpg
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Payments for True Line Models.docx
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Dave John ryp wagons.jpg
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tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:50 pm

I should have said in my post that postage and packing on any reasonable quantity is £4 for second-class signed for delivery.

Tony B

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:08 pm

Brake Push Rod Safety Loops

Contrary to what I suggested in my post and the instruction sheet the brass etch supplied with the kits does include the brake push rod safety loops. I have only just received the etches and realised my mistake.

A corrected version of page 2 of the instructions is attached.

Tony B

Instruction Sheet page 2.jpg
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Graham Tipple
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Graham Tipple » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:43 am

I've just completed one (of four) of these and am turning my attention to a paint job. I note Dave John's excellent efforts and assume the lettering is from one of the lettering transfer sheets available on the internet. I wonder if Dave and anyone else could link particular wagon designs with one or more transfer sheets so that we can acquire them without too much wastage for wrong purchasing choices. I'm half Scot and half Yorkshire so hate wasting money! On another issue, is there a brake lever and/or V iron both sides or only the one with the brakes on?

Thanks for the lovely model. Keep safe, everyone, Graham

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:02 pm

Graham
I think you question about the brakes is answered in the instruction sheet. As built these wagons had brakes on one side only. Later BoT regulations required wagons to be fitted with brakes that could be operated from both sides of the wagon. Many of these wagons were retro fitted with Morton brakes with levers and Vs on both sides. The etch has an optional small etch simulating the dog arrangement for the Morton brake on one side and a second double V and brake lever.
Tony B

Graham Tipple
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Graham Tipple » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:13 pm

So with a brake lever on one side, was there no V on the other?

jimwatt2mm
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by jimwatt2mm » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:00 pm

Wagons with brakes and a handle on one side had a 'V-hanger' on either side of the solebar on that side only. Only if there was a handle on the other side was there a hanger on that side too.
So :-
Brakes on one side + handle on one side = V-hangers that side only.
Brakes on one (or both) side(s) + handle both sides = V-hanger both sides. (usually single on each side)

Jim W

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:10 am

Thanks Jim. Neither of us pointed out that the purpose of the second V was to support the brake rod transferring the action of the brake lever from one side of the wagon to the other. The rod is not included on the etch!
Tony B

Graham Tipple
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Graham Tipple » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:49 pm

Thanks for the explanations to this rather dim modeller! They have thrown perfect clarity on the topic. Could I repeat the first question about recommendations for lettering transfers for particular traders using these wagons, please? Each lettering sheet is quite expensive so mistakes need to be avoided by those of us who are tight of the fist.

jasp
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by jasp » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:57 pm

Tony
I think you may have missed Jim’s point that with one brake lever, the two V hangers were on either side of the same solebar thus obviating the need for a long rod - unless two brake levers were present.
Graham
Why don’t you pm Dave John and ask about the source of his transfers though I suspect he might have produced them himself using white transfer paper and printing the background colour as he did with his wagon transfers.
Jim P

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:15 pm

Jim
Not guilty!
I didn't miss the point but perhaps didn't explain myself well enough. The etch has two pairs of Vs. Two of these are obviously meant to be attached to the inside of the solebars and the other two with legs and rivet detail to the outside. You only need to use both pairs if you have Morton brakes with a brake rod going across the underframe carried by both pairs of Vs. If using one pair for one side brakes a short rod is necessary between the pair of vs which also becomes the point of attachment for the brake handle.
I hope I haven't confused this further!
Tony B

Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Jim Summers » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:16 am

If you go to one of Scott Willis's threads, you will see some fine photos of him scratchbuilding a Caley wagon in S-Scale. A few photos in, you will see the brake etchings being used, in particular the positioning of the vee-hangers.

Scott is a builder of lovely models, as some of us know. Here is the link:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... workbench/

JimS

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:45 pm

Scott's work is wonderful. Thanks for posting these Jim.

Jim Summers
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Jim Summers » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:49 pm

Isn't it, Tony?

You find a well put-together series on his techniques at

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... lasticard/

JimS

ScottW
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by ScottW » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:20 pm

Thanks again, Jim for the plug. Also, thank you both for the nice comments.

Scott

jasp
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by jasp » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:34 pm

Scott
Thank you for putting some of your stuff on RM Web though, in some ways, I wish you had not - standards of modelling that few of us can aspire to.
Jim P

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
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Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by Dave Lochrie » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:42 am

Thanks for sharing the links Jim.
I was trying to convince myself that because Scott is working in S, the detail would be so much easier to achieve, but that comes nowhere close to explaining the difference in quality!

I am old enough to have been inspired by seeing George Slater doing demonstrations with plasticard at the McLelland Galleries. I have always loved working in plastic being inspired by a 4 page wagon building article in the modeller around 1970 (Graham Warburton? from the LMS Society), Simon De Souza's series of articles in MRILL in the mid-1990's, the work of Geoff Kent and Wild Swan's "The 4mm Coal Wagon" by John Hayes, but Scott's few postings (and photography) has brought it up to date and I have saved the link as a standard reference.

We have a fair few inspirational plastic sheet modellers Tony B, Mike Williams and Lyndsay Galloway are just the tip of the icesberg and the arrival of Silhouette Cutters has brought a new wave of innovation to the medium.

Dave L

JimG
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Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by JimG » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:46 pm

Another bit of Scott's output sent to me a while ago. It's actually sitting on the trackwork for my US switching layout, hence the FB rail and the self-guarding frog on the right.
US-S-SwitchingLayout-077.jpg
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In my last five years as Parts Officer for the S scale Society, I have made regular use of Scott as a sounding board for bits and pieces to produce and he is not slow at making critical comments. :D And he's bigger than me. :D I'm in dock at the moment in rehab after a broken hip but I'm keen to get back out to get some more wagons built and try and match the beggar. :D

JimG

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm

Very kind of Dave Lochrie to include me in his list. I am not sure if this is justified although I did build some quite nice wagons and carriages from scratch in the 70s and 80s that still look good today. I wish I could match those standards now and of course the work Scott and others are doing.

I would like to know from Scott more about his techniques for bolt heads.

Scott - I think you mention on the RMWeb that you make bolt heads from slivers of plastikard cut from 20 thou rod. My method for 4mm is similar but I punch out little discs about 0.33 mm in diameter from 10 thou plastikard sheet using a steel wire punch in a press. My question is how do you handle and place these on the body and then apply the solvent so neatly. This is something I now struggle with and any assistance you can offer would be much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation

Tony B

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:55 pm

As an after thought we should mention the real master of plastikard and one time CR modeller Len Folkard. Len is still around but doesn't have good health these days.

In the early 1970s I challenged Len to build me an engine in plastikard. He made me a beautiful Drummond Jumbo that John Boyle painted for me in full Drummond livery with double boiler bands, chocolate brown edgings - the full works. Len offered to make an underframe in plastikard. I am not sure how serious he was but I made a conventional underframe in brass for it. The main problem in those days was getting some 5' wheels. I fitted Studiolith 5' 2" wheels as the nearest available.

I still have this engine and it sits outside the engine shed at Blairgowrie. Unfortunately age has not been kind to it and it is very fragile and is missing a few bits.

I will post a not too flattering photo taken a few years ago.
100_1625.JPG
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Tony B

JimG
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by JimG » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:48 pm

tony brenchley wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm
My question is how do you handle and place these on the body and then apply the solvent so neatly. This is something I now struggle with and any assistance you can offer would be much appreciated.
Tpny,

I find that the best pickup and place tool for wee bits like that is a brand new Swann Morton blade before the tip gets blunted. You can pick the bit up with little pressure on the point, place it then wipe it off the point with the glue brush. You might be able to find some other very sharp item which does the same job, but it needs to be sharp to lightly pierce the plastikard with not too much force and leave almost no mark.

JimG

lindsay_g
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by lindsay_g » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Ditto that, a S&M blade does the trick, the more pointed, the better, like a No. 11. And no need to stab the plasticard, just a light nudge is enough to hold it on the blade so that it is left in place on the model and not on the blade.

Lindsay

MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:20 am

Len should be credited for the basic bodywork of the Diagram 22 and 46 mineral wagons, which he sent me at Tony's request, complete with sketches of how it all fitted together. The texture he achieved to represent wood is excellent. All I did was add the ironwork and the bolt heads.

Best

Mike

ScottW
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by ScottW » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:11 pm

Thank you all for the kind comments, they are much appreciated.

Many years ago two things inspired me to have a go at scratchbuilding my own wagons. The first was marvelling at the beautiful wagons built by fellow East of Scotland member, Ray Nolton. The second was Simon De Souza's series of articles in MORILL. Back then I was modelling in 4mm scale, over time I changed some techniques to suit my own style of construction but the wagons today, despite being S Scale, are still pretty much built as described by Simon in his articles.
tony brenchley wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:31 pm
Scott - I think you mention on the RMWeb that you make bolt heads from slivers of plastikard cut from 20 thou rod. My method for 4mm is similar but I punch out little discs about 0.33 mm in diameter from 10 thou plastikard sheet using a steel wire punch in a press. My question is how do you handle and place these on the body and then apply the solvent so neatly. This is something I now struggle with and any assistance you can offer would be much appreciated.
Tony,
As with Jim and Lindsay, I pick the the bits up with the tip of a No. 11 Swann Morton blade. Back in the day when I used Mek-Pak I use to hold the bolt head in position and add a drop of Mek-Pak before removing the scalpel. Now I predominantly use DL-Limonene, I drop a small amount on the wagon where I want the bolt to go before actually positioning the bolt head with the scalpel. The DL-Limonene stays wet long enough to allow you some final positioning of the bolt head. But be careful, DL-Limonene is quite wet so you only need a small amount on your brush, don't load it up. If you have gone a bit mad don't worry, it will eventually dry out.

Scott

tony brenchley
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: TLM RY Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by tony brenchley » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:21 am

Thanks everyone for your tips., I am using a SM blade to pick up but my dexterity is not so good these days. I will try the limolene, that might be the answer.
Tony B

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