Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

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Steve Parsons
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by Steve Parsons » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Looking at some of the posts on here about some of the True line models there has been a few mentions of the width between the solebars and if etched W irons will fit or not. I model in 00 and as a rule when building a wagon with the silhouette I usually set the solebars 25mm apart which leaves enough room to fit Comet etched W irons (Others makes are available)

If I'm making the W irons as part of the solebar I close the gap down to 23.5mm this when fitted means the bearings hold a standard pin point axle at the right tension.

I've been putting together some True line diagram 46 minerals which went together ok with the as supplied white metal axle guards and checking with a mic I noted that the gap between the solebars was 24.5mm (A Comet W iron does just fit)

Turning to the diagram 3 van and test fitting the axle guards and wheel sets it was obvious that the gap between the solebars on this model is much wider as the only way the W irons would hold the wheels would be if they were bent in at an unnatural angle, a check with a mic showed the solebars to be 26mm apart far to much for the as supplied axle guards. Rather than trying to bend the W irons in I cut two strips of 20 thou plasticard 4mm wide and super glued these on the inside of the solebars which has the effect of closing the gap down to 25mm making with a minimum of tweaking the fitting of the axle guards a lot easier.

In this first picture is one of the cut strips ready to be fitted note the axle boxes have been drilled and fitted with top hat bearings.
Diagram 3 parts.jpg
Diagram 3 parts.jpg (34.88 KiB) Viewed 11607 times
In the next picture is the two strips fitted (the white inner strips) and one of the axle set ups showing how the axle now fits without having to "bend" the axle guards in.
Diagram 3 van with solebar additions.jpg
Diagram 3 van with solebar additions.jpg (27.55 KiB) Viewed 11607 times
In the final picture is the van now with both axles fitted and after testing to make sure it all sat square and flat, as you can see fitting the 20 thou strips either side doesn't adversely effect the position of the axle guards.
Diagram 3 van with axles fitted.jpg
Diagram 3 van with axles fitted.jpg (26.39 KiB) Viewed 11607 times
Hope this advice helps Steve

Dave John
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by Dave John » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:49 pm

TLM diagram 3 width between inner faces of solebars , 25.8 mm. 51 L pregrouping etched brass W irons 24 mm, so almost 1mm each side. I never got the hang of sticking W irons on square with the wheels and bearings in the way, so always go for etched ones.

I am so tempted to extend the buffer shanks and have a transverse leaf spring in the centre part of the wagon, just like the original.....

I have started mine, I'm intending to do a build in my Blog,"Kelvinbank, a Caledonian Railway project", which is on the RMweb blogs section.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... y-project/

My reasoning for blogging there is simple; I can cover more general model railway subjects and references back to Crassoc and this forum might help with the upsurge in interest mentioned in the recent True Line. Steves threads over there are rightly popular, the more people see is possible the more they are likely to have a go.

jasp
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by jasp » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:33 am

Steve
Thank you for bringing this up.
The width between the solebars was designed to suit Bill Bedford sprung W irons, which are 25mm, to avoid having to scrape out the inside of the solebars as in the cattle van.
I cannot remember exactly the measurement used but my three examples of the van measure between 25.56 and 25.6mm.
Resin casting often results in a little shrinkage but I wonder if the technique used by the manufacturers results in some, marginal, change in dimension.
I do not have the master so cannot clarify the original dimension.
On the question of alignment/squareness of axles to solebars etc, I have found the Brassmasters axle setting jigs to be invaluable, both for etched W irons and fixed axleguards. I use the above mentioned Bill Bedford W irons but used fixed axleguards for a couple of sample TLM wagons for exhibition display purposes.
Jim P

Steve Parsons
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by Steve Parsons » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:06 am

Thank you Jim being an 00 modeler I usually use Comet etched W iron and at first were a little skeptical of the cast white metal all in one axle guard and the first true line models I built were a couple of the cattle wagons which I changed the supplied items for said Comet W irons. But having quite a large amount of minerals to build from D22 through the D46 and a D59 body I got cheap as it was a second so I thought I would give them a try and to be honest I've got on well with them and all the wagons sit nice and square. Your right Jim the brass master tool is a very handy and essential tool if one is doing any kind of wagon scratch building.

What I like to do is fit three of the axle guards and when the glue is dry fit and hold the forth in place with a couple of small hair grips this allows me to sit the wagon on its wheels on a pain of glass and a section of test track to see if it sits nice and flat and level then when happy everything is nice and straight I add super glue on the tip of a cocktail stick so it seeps in between the final axle guard and the body leaving the hair grips in place until its all set. For 00 track these are perfectly alright and are cheaper than fitting every axle with etched W irons.

There also handy if one is not happy soldering, I am but its surprising how many aren't so by removing the etched W iron removes the need to do any soldering as the top hat bearings are held in the axle guards with a dab of super glue, the only real job one has to do is drill the bearing holes in the axle guards a bit deeper so the bearings sit in to there collars.

So I'm happy to stick with them and if anybody swaps there cast axle guards out for etched items and don't use them don't just chuck them in your spares box and forget about them I'll take them off your hands for you and make sure there responsibly recycled.
Steve

tony brenchley
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:42 am

Jim Pairman obviously made the solebars on the Drummond van pattern narrower than prototype, usually 6" or scale 1.5mm, to accommodate Bill Bedford's sprung w-irons which I know he likes using. The usual spacing between the inside faces of the solebars would be 6' or thereabouts or 24mm to scale.

I have fitted conventional compensating w-irons to mine as a have large stocks of these. However Steve Parsons' suggestion of putting 20 thou packing behind the solebars is worth following as it helps centre the w-irons in the underframe and also provides a wider landing for attaching the spring hanger bases to the solebars. I am using separate springs and axleboxes as again I have good stocks of these acquired when the CRA used to sell these castings but this is still helpful if you are using combined spring and axlebox castings where you will have to mount the spring hanger bases separately at the moving w-iron where the spring and axlebox are attached to the w-iron.

Tony B

Coronach
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by Coronach » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:58 pm

I use the BB axleguards too, modelling in EM. However, with the units assembled you still have that gap. It wasn't a major issue in truth but if you, like Jim and me do use the Bill Bedford units, be aware that you'll need to add some packing so that the top horizontal section of the axleguard is level with the bottom of the solebar or you will end up with an abnormally low ride height. I found it easiest just to make a false floor and put that in underneath the body before fitting the axleguards,

Dave.

tony brenchley
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by tony brenchley » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:20 am

Hi Dave

I spotted that, hence I used separate axlebox and spring castings with the spring hangers mounted separately also. I am not sure where the dimensio0nal error occurs but you could make the slot in the axlebox, which is necessary for the sprung movement in the BB units a bit deeper. Does putting a false floor in alter the ride height?

Tony B

Coronach
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Re: Diagram 3 box van helpful hint

Post by Coronach » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:05 pm

It does that, Tony. I noticed it at first when I just applied the units to the bottom of the wagon body. I'm working on a Highland Society Jones 6t van as well plus two Oxford Jubilee wagons. I noticed the buffer height was a good deal lower (6-8 scale inches). 1.5-2mm of plasticard made all the difference.

Dave.

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