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Scuds

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:22 am
by Jim Summers
I have come across the expression 'scuds' used in the Caley's Mineral Timetable of 1918, though not in earlier editions.

The term is known to me in the context of US railways, but I have only a dim recollection of hearing it in terms of the Caley.

Can anyone explain its meaning, please? I have some ideas, but I wonder if anyone has an authoritative answer.

In this 1918 example, three trip trains, probably conditional, were involved. One was off Polmadie and was a turn out and back between Bridgeton and General Terminus; another was off Mossend between Langloan and Shieldmuir or Hamilton, returning LE; the third was off Ross, between Motherwell and Shieldmuir or Hamilton, returning LE.

JimS

Re: Scuds

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:15 pm
by Ian Smeeton
Sent Condional Upon Demand?

Otherwise, no idea.

Regards

Ian

Re: Scuds

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:13 pm
by JimG
It couldn't have any connection with the Scots word "scud" which means bare or naked?

Jim G.

Re: Scuds

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:12 pm
by David Blevins
I have come across a mention of a "Mossend Scud" in the Working Time Table November, 1896 (CRA Publication/re-print).
It is under Mineral Train Alterations (page 138) and reads:-
Motherwell, Nos. 30 and 45, and 5.0p.m. Conditional Engine (Mossend Scud) ....... Suspended 29th June.
Making a Guess - it is called on as required to scud back and forth.
The Dictionary has Scud as "Run or Fly straight and Fast" - Perhaps Mossend to Ross Yard without picking up en-route.
There must have been other "scuds" and perhaps a study of "Working Time Tables" might elicit more information.
David Blevins.

Re: Scuds

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:31 am
by David Blevins
The CRA Publication - Mineral Time Table for 01st., November, 1904 has a Number of "SCUDS" listed and here a few references for looking up the detail.
Page 19
6.45am Motherwell Scud No. 1
4.55pm Motherwell Scud No. 2
Page 26
5.55am Ross Scud No. 1
5.55pm Ross Scud No. 2
Page 32
8.45pm Carmyle Scud
5.50am Polmadie Scud No. 1
5.10pm Polmadie Scud No. 2

A couple of examples for those who do not have access to the Mineral Time Table for 1904:-
4.55pm Motherwell Scud No. 2 - Special Class Tank Engine - To work empty wagons from Derby Sidings to Ross, Strathaven Junction, or Shieldmuir as required, and Train from Globe and Parkneuk Works, and Derby Siding to Motherwell Station, Dalzell and Lanarkshire Steel Works.
5.55pm Ross Scud No. 2 - New Goods Engine - To go to Ross and be employed working traffic between Ross and Lesmahagow Junction, Colville's, and Back of Shops.
5.50am Polmadie Scud No. 1 - First Class Engine - To be employed working traffic between Polmadie and various Depots.

For those who do not have a copy of the CRA Publication - Caledonian Railway Mineral Time Table 1904, I would definitely recommend this publication as it gives a fascinating insight into the working of Mineral Trains in great detail from Areas, calling Points and the Locomotive workings from the Engine Sheds.

David Blevins.

Re: Scuds

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:35 pm
by Jim Summers
Thanks, David, and everyone.

I was basing my inquiry on the 1904 Mineral TT and hadn't picked them up in the WTT, as David has, but they seem similar things.

My feeling is that they were quick, no-messing trips run conditionally, and perhaps as add-ons for crews who had finished early or were spare. I agree with the view that the word indicates something nippy, and, as I mentioned, the term is used in the US.

Though it has a Scottish ring to it, I wonder if there was some item in the news which led railwaymen to coin the phrase. Many of the railway sidings for example are named after locations in the Boer War.

Which reminds me of hearing a controller, going home after his shift, astonish ordinary passengers in a carriage by remarking to a colleague: "I see the cement's failed with a spaceship in the Khyber Pass".

Thanks everyone for their thoughts.

JimS

Re: Scuds

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:06 pm
by David Blevins
I have just come across some more Information on "Scuds" in the Caledonian Railway Mineral Time Table dated 10th., April, 1922.
It provides further Detail on Scud Workings as follows:-

Mossend Scud No. 1 - 18 x 26 Tank Engine - 6.0am. Train, Mossend to Holytown No. 5 Reception Sidings, and Two Trains, Mossend to Shieldmuir or Hamilton.
Mossend Scud No. 2 - 18 x 26 Tank Engine - 9.30am. Three Trains, Mossend to Bellside, Shieldmuir or Hamilton.
Mossend Scud No. 3 - 18 x 26 Tank Engine - 6.30pm. Three Trains Mossend to Shieldmuir, Hamilton or Newton. On Tuesdays and Thursdays works Live Stock from Wishaw (Central), also on Fridays when required.
Mossend Scud No. 4 - 18 x 26 Goods Engine - 10.0pm. Three Trains, Mossend to Bellside, Shieldmuir, or Hamilton.

The "Times" above are "Times of Arrival of Engine at Motherwell Shed Signal."
A further insight into the working of Mineral Trains and Scud working.
David Blevins.

Re: Scuds

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:40 pm
by Jim Summers
Thanks, David.
Clearly Scuds were a well-established concept which we have overlooked.

Jim

Re: Scuds

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:36 pm
by MIKEWILLIAMS
Talking about CR speedy things, perhaps we should start discussing the Flying Squad...........

Best

Mike

Re: Scuds

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:27 pm
by Jim Summers
As it happens, Mike, the Caledonian did have Flying Squads, and not on the ticket fraud side.
All will be explained (I hope) in Volume Two of 'Operating the Caledonian Railway'.

Must remember to put Flying Squad in the index.


JimS

Re: Scuds

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:09 am
by MIKEWILLIAMS
I saw the reference in an accident report ,Jim, as no doubt you did. Just a teaser............

Best

Mike