2pm Down Corridor.

The day to day working of the Caledonian Railway Company, including its constituents and successors.
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jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

2pm Down Corridor.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

The operation of the 2pm Down Corridor has come up in a topic on RMWeb. The suggestion has been made that the Glasgow and Edinburgh portions were divided at Preston, where the Liverpool and Manchester coaches were then attached, but where was the Aberdeen portion removed and from which portion, Glasgow or Edinburgh?

Jim W
caley739
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Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:59 am

Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by caley739 »

From the WTT Summer 1907, page 23, columns 169-172 for The Afternoon Corridor shows 2 trains departing Carlisle at 8.13pm for Glasgow/Edinburgh and 8.42pm for Glasgow/Perth.
The 8.13pm arrives Strawfank Junction at 9.41pm and departs 9.43pm for Glasgow and 9.47pm for Edinburgh.
The 8.42pm arrives Carstairs 10.14pm and departs 10.17pm for Glasgow and 10.25pm for Perth.

How to interpret this?
I assume (dangerous!) that the 8.13 is the main train from Euston and the 8.42 has the Manchester/ Liverpool carriages marshalled in at Preston.

The LNWR Marshalling Circular for Summer 1910 shows the Aberdeen Break Composite marshalled behind the Edinburgh portion leaving Euston but seems to be part of the great remarshalling at Preston into the second train.
This second train departs Preston at 6.40pm marshalled Manchester to Glasgow/Liverpool to Glasgow/Liverpool to Edinburgh/Manchester to Edinburgh/Manchester to Aberdeen/London to Aberdeen/London to Whitehaven.

Some of this seems contradictory but different dates and possible further remarshalling at Carlisle might account for the differences but Carstairs does seem to be splitting point for the Aberdeen portion. but it seems to be behind the Edinburgh coaches and Glasgow coaches at different parts of the journey.

I am interested to see if anyone has a different take on this or further thoughts.

Tom Robertson
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Thanks, Tom. I've passed that info on. One question remains for me, though. Was the ex-Liverpool/Manchester train with the Euston-Aberdeen coach split into three at Carstairs, to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Perth? Or have I missed something?

Jim W
caley739
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by caley739 »

Jim
A further look at the 1907 WTT page109, column 95 shows a 10.21pm express from Carstairs to Edinburgh. This is described as 8.42pm from Carlisle, answers the point you raise, and confirms the Manchester/Liverpool to Edinburgh coaches detached at Carstairs.

Tom
MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

In the July 1913 carriage marshalling circular (in other words height of season/maximum load time) the 8.13 pm from Carlisle comprised the Edinburgh and Glasgow portions of the 2.00 pm from Euston. It was divided at Strawfrank Junction. At the front of the Glasgow portion were a brake Composite from Blackpool and on Mondays a brake Third from Birmingham. On Saturdays two milk vans were hung on the back of the Edinburgh portion at Beattock.

It was followed by the 8.48 pm from Carlisle, also described as the 2.00 pm from Euston. This was the 6.40 from Preston, where the Liverpool and Manchester portions were combined. The train divided at Carstairs. As well as one brake Composite each from Liverpool Exchange and Manchester, the Edinburgh bound section included, in order, a brake Composite Carstairs - Perth, a brake van Manchester - Aberdeen, a 65ft brake Composite London - Aberdeen (both off the previous train), a Post Office Carlisle - Aberdeen, a brake Composite from Carlisle that was slipped at Lockerbie, a Carlisle - Dundee milk van and a Stranraer milk van, both attached at Beattock.

Mind-boggling, especially at Beattock.

Best

Mike
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Thanks Tom and Mike. Once again this forum provides almost instant answers to a query.

Jim
Orbiston
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by Orbiston »

Why were they sending milk from Carlisle to Dundee?
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Orbiston wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:25 pm Why were they sending milk from Carlisle to Dundee?
Would this not have been returning empty, the milk having come from Dundee to Carlisle?

Jim W
caley739
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by caley739 »

jimwatt2mm wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:42 pm
Orbiston wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:25 pm Why were they sending milk from Carlisle to Dundee?
Would this not have been returning empty, the milk having come from Dundee to Carlisle?

I think this is most likely but the Stranraer van was probably loaded with full butts. I wonder how it reached Beattock likely traveling via Dumfries and Lockerbie.In the 1907 WTT there is a 6.55pm stopping passenger from Carlisle to Beattock arriving 8.50pm which is booked 17 minutes at Lockerbie, time enough for some attaching and detaching.
Orbiston
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by Orbiston »

Sorry to be so whimsical but why were they sending milk from Dundee to Carlisle?
MIKEWILLIAMS
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

The details of all the loaded and empty milk wagon workings are in the 1913 train marshalling circular. Both the Stranraer and Carlisle vans were loaded and attached at Beattock. The Stranraer - Dundee vehicle arrived at Carlisle on the 3.40 pm departure from Stranrear. They both travelled north from Carlisle at 6.50 pm. This was a Carlisle to Moffat passenger train comprising three carriages, plus milk vans Newcastle - Moffat, then the two vans in question, then a Lockerbie to Edinburgh van and one from Dumfries to Edinburgh. The last two were attached to a goods train at Beattock, except on Saturdays, when they were attached to the first portion of the "Corridor"

Best

Mike
Orraman
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Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by Orraman »

Milk Traffic - Assorted additional information:-

There was an Edinburgh and Dumfriesshire Dairy Company which was registered as a company created in 1897.

Article in Edinburgh local newspaper puts it even earlier- https://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/new ... sly-ornate

“ the premises were occupied by 'the Dummy' – the Edinburgh and Dumfriesshire Dairy Company Ltd which had started in 1884 by supplying milk from city dairies and selling it through a network of branches across the capital. Supply could not keep up with demand, so in the 1920s fresh milk was brought in from Dumfriesshire by train.”

The company had a railway siding in the Merchiston area and there is further information on RMWeb at https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... edinburgh/

This despite the fact that there were large creameries in the area – at Lockerbie, Dunraggit and Tarff. An article on United Creameries provides background confirming that milk was sent from there to Glasgow and Edinburgh in cans as well as to English towns.

http://glasgowwestaddress.co.uk/1891_Bo ... es_Ltd.htm


Caledonian’s Local Working of Carriages No 155 July 1913 pages 25 and 26 also shows various detailed entries for milk traffic.
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: 2pm Down Corridor. AND Milk Traffic

Post by Jim Summers »

And the complexities of milk traffic in 1891 in Lanarkshire are in Operating the Caledonian Railway Vol.Two. at Appendix IV, with a map to help.
I suspect there is a good deal more to be researched on that traffic, and thank you for these links.

JimS
jasp
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: 2pm Down Corridor.

Post by jasp »

Nice plug, Mr S
Copies of both Part 1 and 2 are still available - see the “shop” on the Home page
Jim P
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