50t bogie ore wagon

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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dumb buffer
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50t bogie ore wagon

Post by dumb buffer »

These pictures are from the Association's own digital Archive, and the one is a considerable enlargement of the other. And I found it by accident while looking for something else.

I don't recognise the location; perhaps someone can? I suspect the Motherwell / Wishaw area.

What I find interesting is that it's the only picture I know of showing the unique wagon apparently "in service" (albeit apparently unladen) as distinct from a "posed" photograph.

Allan Ferguson

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jimwatt2mm
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I'm in Perth until tomorrow, so can't check photos I have at home, but I'm pretty certain this is Coatbidge, with Summerlea ironworks in the background.

Jim W
caley739
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by caley739 »

I think this is Gartsherrie. It seems a good fit to the OS 1910 edition.

Tom Robertson
jim mac
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jim mac »

As the person who copied the photograph and made the selective enlargement, I noted they were labelled "Netherton Lime Works".
As Allan noted this is the only record of the 50 tonner in service and to add to the interest it is coupled to its successor a 30 tonner.
The third wagon from the right is lettered across the top plank "R&C Section".
jim mac
Angus McIntosh
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Angus McIntosh »

Carstairs Station Demolition 1913.pdf
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Could the two wagons in the right background of this shot of Carstairs Station Demolition in 1913 be 50 or 30 tonners ?

Whether their load has any connection with the demolition is another question ?

Angus
jim mac
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jim mac »

Angus
There was only one 50tonner built, so that it is more likely that the two wagons are from the 30tonner series, some of which were used for non-revenue duties.
Is it possible to get a clearer image.
jim mac
jim mac
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jim mac »

Angus
I have selectively cropped and enlarged the Carstairs photograph and am fairly confident both wagons are 30tonners.
30tonner at Carstairs demolition.jpg
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jim mac
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jimwatt2mm »

jimwatt2mm wrote:I'm in Perth until tomorrow, so can't check photos I have at home, but I'm pretty certain this is Coatbidge, with Summerlea ironworks in the background.

Jim W
Now that I'm home from Perth and have had a chance to look more closely at the photograph and compare it with the OS map of the area, I'm not so sure. The siding curving away to the back right fits, but the rest of the trackwork doesn't. For the relevant siding at Summerlea to be in the photo, it would need to have been taken from near the end of the station platform and both it and the signal box would be visible. Also there should be a footbridge and road bridge in the left background.

It doesn't fit Gartsherrie as there is not that track curving away to the right and the buildings don't fit. I've looked the maps in the Wishaw, Motherwell and Rutherglen areas where there are 4 tracks, but can't find anything to fit.

I'm sure I've seen this, or a very similar photo somewhere before - these signals in the background are familiar - but I can't think where I saw it.

As to the Carstairs photo, both the wagons are of steel construction, so must be 30 tonners. The 50t was wood.

Jim W
Alan K
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Alan K »

This picture is in the Wagons book, p99. I think it was also featured in a True Line - I remember nobody could identify what the arrow was for!

Alan
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Alan K wrote:This picture is in the Wagons book, p99. I think it was also featured in a True Line - I remember nobody could identify what the arrow was for!

Alan
I knew I'd seen it before!

But where was Netherton Lime works? A google search brought up this site https://sites.google.com/site/keymapsgb/ns/80/ns8040 which puts it on the Lesmahagow Railway near Auchenheath, http://maps.nls.uk/view/82893702 bottom left of the map, but that can't be where the photograph was taken!! Was there another one of the same name somewhere? As I said, I couldn't find anything in the Netherton area of Wishaw.

Jim W
Jim Summers
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Jim Summers »

The arrow has been mentioned by Alan
I have always assumed that it marked the spot of an accident, which would give a good reason for an official picture. I doubt if any enthusiast would have taken such a view, but it is full of much interest, as everyone has been demonstrating.

As to the location, is it not the predecessor of the Netherton industrial estate, Wishaw? That is where Shieldmuir Yard was and now the Royal Mail terminal.
See TTLs 60 and 62, where there are photographs. Lime is, I think, a red herring, if that is mixing too many metaphors. It looks like an iron and steel works to me.

The Netherton LIME works were, as Jim W has said, down in the Auchenheath area, which we explored on our recent day out.

JimS
dumb buffer
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by dumb buffer »

I wasn't trying to stir up a discussion on this -- just filled with boyish delight at finding something that was new to me!
There is another picture , from a slightly different viewpoint which also has an arrow. Noticeably, however, the wagons in the second row are all marked "Netherton Lime Works"

I also note at the front right hand end a dia 22 mineral with the MacIntosh brake.

Allan F
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Jim Summers
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Jim Summers »

Continuing the notion of boyish delight in analysing pictures, the Netherton Lime wagons would be regular traffic in the area, lime being important to the iron industry.
This may have led to these companion pictures being wrongly identified as Netherton Lime Works.

JimS
jimwatt2mm
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Having had a closer look at both photos and the 1910 maps of the area, I have to agree with Tom that it is Gartsherrie Iron Works in the background, Summerlea works being to the right of where this first photo was taken and behind the photographer of the second, i.e. both taken a little further north of where I had originally thought. In the former, you can just make out where the NB line to Edinburgh via Bathgate passes under the Caley line at the far left. In the second photo you can see the main line swinging round to the left past Gartsherrie works.

Jim W
caley739
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by caley739 »

In the Carstairs demolition picture there appears to be a workman standing on top of the wagon to the left, which suggests some connection to the demolition works. But what is the load? First thought was limestone, but surely that would be too dense to be piled so high, which remark would also apply to ballast or demolition rubble. There also appears to be similar white material in the foreground, but again, what is it?

Tom Robertson
Dave John
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Dave John »

The first picture of the 50 T wagon shows a handwheel for the brake, wheras the build picture shows a straight bar with end handles. It must have been modified (or perhaps broken) at some point and the handwheel fitted as per the 30 T wagons.

Great pictures too, am I right in thinking that the fouling bars in the photo of carstairs are to stop the point beyond them being changed if stock is being loaded too close to it and might foul the adjacent line ?
dumb buffer
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by dumb buffer »

This are not a fouling bar. It is a treadle, referred to by the CR as a Balance Bar, which was simply to detect the presence of a pair of wheels by depressing the bar, and so they were similar to a track circuit. Apparently they were used in preference to track circuits even in later years, where track conditions such as grease or dirt might make an electrical track circuit unreliable. There were lots of them around Glasgow Central until semaphore signalling was replaced, and they were still at the buffer stops in Perth in the NB bay very recently.

Allan F
Dave John
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Dave John »

Ah, ok, thanks.
Angus McIntosh
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Angus McIntosh »

Carstairs Demolition 2.pdf
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The two views of Carstairs Station Demolition which might go to answering some of the questions raised by Tom earlier.
The left view highlights the white coated interior walls and the light colour of the brickwork mortar.
The right view shows one of the 30T wagons repositioned from the earlier photograph to nearer the station on one of the through roads. Also shown is a tub in the 4 foot of the Up Loop and a hand operated crane in the background which might suggest that the rubble was being loaded into the 30T wagons.

Angus
Jim Summers
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Jim Summers »

The Carstairs photos are full of interest, Angus, thank you.
I have perhaps got myself disorientated - not at all impossible - but what is the building in the background with the white walls and the chimneys?

JimS
Angus McIntosh
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Angus McIntosh »

Jim,

The 'building' in the background is the water tank which supplied all the railway's needs, and which spectacularly burst during the winter of 1963.
The chimneys belong to a row of houses behind the tank on the road to Carstairs Village.

Angus
Angus McIntosh
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Re: 50t bogie ore wagon

Post by Angus McIntosh »

Jim,

The 'building' in the background is the water tank which supplied all the railway's needs, and which spectacularly burst during the winter of 1963.
The chimneys belong to a row of houses behind the tank on the road to Carstairs Village.

Angus
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