Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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dunalastairv
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by dunalastairv » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:36 pm

I wonder... Page 110 of O.S.Nock's Caledonian Railway history states that the wheel-centres of the new 'Grampian' carriages of 1905 were painted red when first introduced. I've found no other reference to this, and if they were, doubtless the paint would soon be covered in a layer of grime, as must have been the white tyre rims. I also know that Nock was not always regarded as a reliable historian and I wondered if there was any written evidence to support this claim?

Mike. D.

RossB
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by RossB » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:32 pm

The 'Grampians' were initially fitted with Mansell wheels in common with other stock of the period. Many railways which used these wheels painted the wooden centres the same colour as the body which in this case would be the lake/maroon of the lower panels. Below is a photograph of a model I built a little while ago, while not a 'Grampian' it does show a vehicle fitted with Mansell wheels painted the same colour as the body.

Ross
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Graham Tipple
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by Graham Tipple » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:04 pm

What a lovely coach and beautifully painted. Is it a WCJS convertion? Graham

dumb buffer
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by dumb buffer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:58 pm

The wooden centres were often, I think, teak, which would have a distinctly reddish shade naturally. Being a naturally oily wood the teak wouldn't take paint particularly well. I have read somewhere that on some lines the wooden centres were varnished; I wouldn't have thought that would last particularly well in service.

Allan F

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:26 am

While I can't prove it, I think that Nock took his information from the coloured plate of the Grampian stock that appeared in Our Home Railways published in 1910. Teak eventually weathers to a silvery colour. Reference Allan's comments about varnish, nobody seems to have told Gresley!

Best

Mike

dumb buffer
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by dumb buffer » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:11 pm

Pace Sir Nigel; as a yacht owner of some standing I have to say that I gave up on varnishing the teak bits and eventually resorted to frequent applications of teak oil. I accept that (a) I didn't have too much teak, and (b) I was never too fussed about appearances. I was also reluctant to spend too much time on maintenance, having a preference for sailing. I would be interested to hear the views of the views of those engaged on maintence of teak stock at Bo'ness and elsewhere, where very high standards of finish have been achieved.

Allan F

Jim Summers
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by Jim Summers » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:01 pm

Allan asks about the teak varnish at Bo'ness. Well, we do varnish - lots of times and very carefully.
However our varnished teak stock is not much exposed to the Scottish weather, so it stays pretty good. They use teak stock more on the North Yorkshire Moors, and (at least on my last visit) the finish on some of the teak coaches was looking tired.

JimS

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Red wheels on 'Grampian' stock?

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:17 pm

Back to the original question. There's only one official photograph of a Mansell-wheeled Grampian carriage that is well-lit. Here's a crop from it. Note that the metal retaining ring next to the white painted tyre looks to be the same colour and level of gloss as the wooden segments. This suggests to me that it was indeed painted. Whether it's the same colour as the body panel above I'm not sure, but it could be. To add further confusion, wouldn't it have been easy to paint the metal disc wheels that supplanted the Mansell variety to match the body colour? By the way, I was wrong about the painting in Our Home Railways. It depicts a metal disc wheeled carriage, but the wheel centres are brown, not body coloured.

Best

Mike
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