Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Post by RossB » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:48 pm

I've just came across a photograph of CR 148 taken at Kingmoor with a rather interesting rake of wagons in the background. The wagon of most interest is the peak roof van. It appears to be some kind of non-revenue vehicle, perhaps a tool van. It is tempting to interpret the lettering as:

TOOL(?) VAN xxxx

The other wagons are also of interest. The one on the left appears to be some kind of brake van while the van(s) just visible under the boiler could also be some kind of engineers wagons. Could these wagons appear in the background of any other photographs?

Mystery Van Carlisle.jpg
Mystery Van Carlisle.jpg (88.07 KiB) Viewed 4979 times

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Re: Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Post by peterbunce » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Would it be 'a dust extractor van'? mentioned on p54 of the wagon supplement. The door appears to have a couple of hinges with a latch on the right hand side?

A possible use could be the 'dust' from the larger stations, or when cleaning carriages?

The mini bit under the boiler seems to be a ducket (from the width?) perhaps on a c.1870 full brake though the photo in the coach book (on page 133)shows a flush (no vertical panelling) side to the ducket.


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Re: Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Post by Coronach » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:00 pm

It looks like it may be lying in the crane siding, given the background. I believe this area was wooded then as it is now.


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Re: Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:11 pm

The wagon looks very like one of the peak roof grain wagons owned by Robert Hutchinson, but that's the best I can offer. There is a picture at the NRM of a couple of peak-roof vans in departmental use at Oban, but they are clearly home made efforts consisting of a small garden shed attached to the top of an open wagon body. As to the other hidden vehicle, it's quite possibly the 6-wheel passenger brake van that was converted into a tool van - p.56 of the wagon book supplement. The flush panelling may have been a repair.



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Re: Mystery Wagons Carlisle

Post by RossB » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:27 pm

I've been doing a little more research and think I've found the same vans (or at least some very similar ones) in other photographs.

The van on the extreme left looks like it could be the one in Plate 17.16 of Caledonian Railway Wagons by Mike Williams and/or Plate s8.1 of the supplement. From plate 17.16 the closed end of the van seems to have a narrow panel right at the end and two horizontal hand rails which can just be made out. Looking at the two photographs, the van appears to be lettered "Carlisle Tool Brake Van".

The peak roof van could be the centre van in this train assisting with the aftermath of Quintinshill.

Caledonian Q 2012-02-24 at 00.26.21.jpg
Caledonian Q 2012-02-24 at 00.26.21.jpg (32.13 KiB) Viewed 388 times

The vans either side look like old passenger luggage vans relegated to departmental use as shown in Plate 17.23 of the wagon book. The right most van of the original photograph could be one of these.

A lot of theories but in the absence of more information its about the best I could come up with.


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