Alloa Coal Company wagons - what colour were they painted?

[peterbunce]

H&A models now sell the Modelmaster private owner transfers -- link -- https://www.hamodels.net/modelmaster-pr ... ecals.html

Alloa is included in the yelloow background and also black background with white (I Think), Robbies transfers also have Alloa in their range in a daek red background colour; would any of these be correct?

They are for the RCH 7 plank wagon., with an end door

Peter.

[MIKEWILLIAMS]

Hello Peter

I thought someone would have replied by now, so I'll try to put you out of your misery. The Pickering order books only mention "Brown oxide." 10 ton wagons were built in 1900 with white letters shaded blue numbered 651-700. 12 ton wagons were built in 1902 (700 - 1000), 1904 (1003 - 1202), 1907 (1206 - 1405) and 1908 (1406 - 1505). The last lot had steel underframes. There was no mention of lettering colours for the 12-tonners.

Best

Mike

[Orraman]

From memory, the Smith Museum in Stirling had a fairly large model of an Alloa wagon and it was in brown.
Will see if I can take a look in the coming weeks or get further info on its provenance.

[peterbunce]

Hi

Thank you to 'Orraman' for the reply and I look forward to your efforts, and 'Thank You'. in advance.

I have just looked at the web page for the Smith Museum and there is not a photo of the wagon.

Thanks also to Mike Wlliams. for his input.

Peter

[Orraman]

Sorry for the long delay in getting this information to you.

Finally managed to get to the Smith Museum and the model is still on display.
Managed to take some photos which I tried to attach but they are too big. Will work on this.
Details are
Dumb buffered wagon numbered 1003, Tare 28lbs
Lettered THE ALLOA COAL COMPANY Ltd. ALLOA
Colour I would describe as body brown oxide, white lettering edged black.

I took a closer look at the lining in case it was a very deep blue lining which had discoloured over time but at the moment would still think of it as black.

[jim mac]

If you are able to resize the photographs, using Photoshop or similar software, save the image (with a new name, so that you don't overwrite the original) at 800 pixels wide and 72 dpi and at that size they should load to the Forum without any difficulty.

jim mac

[David Blevins]

The following is the entry on 17/11/1904 from the RY Pickering Records:-
ALLOA COAL Co. Ltd., Alloa had 200 Wagons Built, 12 Tons, Numbered 1003 to 1202, painted Brown Oxide and underframe to have 1 coat of boiled Tar & dissolved with lime shell. Registered with the C.R.
To be Lettered:-
The Alloa Coal Coy. Limited
B A N N O CK B U R N
Wallsend Navigation
1003
Tare: Finest Smithy Load 12 Tons

The previous entry mentions the Museum Model is Dumb Buffered, and the above looks like new "spring buffered" Wagons as a replacement for redundant stock. As the only Wagons leaving the Wishaw Works in 1904 with Dumb Buffers were refurbished for Hire Only.
A photograph of the 1904 Wagons must be in existence, so it should be possible to compare New and Old Liveries.

David Blevins.

[dumb buffer]

I have an impression -- I may have heard it somewhere -- that the wagons to be seen in coal merchants' windows were publicity models made by some model making firm, and that they were all the same design. The livery, of course, was applied for each company, but again, may have been indicative (to look good in the window) rather than an accurate representation of a particular wagon. It would be educational to see and compare models from two or more different companies. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of an account for the supply of such a model.

Allan Ferguson

[Orraman]

Will take another look and spend a longer time there in the light of the above comments.

Suggestion of a display model might be correct in the light of the size, however would have thought that might be more for coal merchants with offices rather than a colliery company. Not to say they did not get one of course.

Will ask the Smith Museum staff to remove the perspex cover again and try and get measurements, look for a maker's plate etc etc
Anyone wanting specific information/photos, let me know and I will see what i can do

Will try and meet the longest serving volunteer at the Museum in case he has more information not written down

Will ask about any written records on its provenance

Will also try and take better photos using the Surface Pro rather than my phone.

Intend to print the existing photos and hopefully take to Saturday's meeting