CR 812 Class from Rails

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Good evening all,

The first CAD shots are now available to view on Rails website. Looking good.

https://mailchi.mp/railsofsheffield/rai ... 0238fe4327
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Evening all,

I spoke to Rails Saturday about another order and also enquired if there was any news about the Bachmann 812 class. Unofficially, they are expecting them to arrive 2nd quarter of 2021 so not long off.

Hope they live up to expectations.
tony brenchley
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by tony brenchley »

I have just had a look at the CAD pictures posted in September. I am not sure how accurate these are as a portrayal of the model as it will eventually appear but one thing does worry me.

The outside faces of the splashers and the cab side do not appear to line up. Is this evidence that the splashers have been moved inwards to suit OO gauge? If that is the case what happens at the front end with the front splashers, smokebox front and wings?

If the splashers have been moved inwards that will make it difficult to use scale wheels at scale spacing, i.e. to P4 standards or better. I hope prototypical accuracy has not been sacrificed to appease the toy market.

I did ask Rails of Sheffield about this issue when the model was first proposed following my disappointment that the Hornby NBR J36 can only be converted to scale with some significant rebuilding. They promised to get back to me but despite several prompts they never responded to my concerns.

I am waiting to be pleasantly surprised but suspect I am going to be disappointed.

Tony B
Dave Lochrie
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Tony,
I am sure you will be proved right re difficulty in conversion. The tendency being to cast the footplate and some lower body parts in metal for the weight.
I was puzzled as to how it could help OO workings to only change one after scanning the prototype.

So one thing that will surprise you (because it certainly surprised me) is that the cab side and the wheel splashers do not line up on the 812 Class. They do on the Jumbos, but not on the 812, 652, 30 and 300 classes. It's certainly hard to spot from most angles but this close-up of the well known shot of No 833 shows it reasonably clearly. I have a similar view of No828 at Kidderminster (not in CR days, obviously) which I can't locate, which is also from just the correct angle. Willie Stewart worked from GAs whenever possible, and it can be seen on his front elevation (sorry if that's architectural rather than the correct engineering terminology.

Rather begs the question why, could it just be as simple as to maximise the cab width? It's clearly not as wide as the tender side sheets.

Dave L
Attachments
CR No 833 southbound near Beattock.jpg
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Mike 1
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by Mike 1 »

Could it be that the crew had to walk along that footplate beside the cab a lot more often than along the tender, so extra width was safer?

Mike
tony brenchley
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by tony brenchley »

That is a very useful photo Dave.

Clearly the cab is wider than the splashers but for what reason? Could this be defined by the boiler size and construction rather than any aesthetic considerations? I don't think there is anything related to the underfarme, wheels and motion that would require the cab splashers to be wider.

What can the experts tell us?
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

tony brenchley wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:46 pm I have just had a look at the CAD pictures posted in September. I am not sure how accurate these are as a portrayal of the model as it will eventually appear but one thing does worry me.

The outside faces of the splashers and the cab side do not appear to line up. Is this evidence that the splashers have been moved inwards to suit OO gauge? If that is the case what happens at the front end with the front splashers, smokebox front and wings?

If the splashers have been moved inwards that will make it difficult to use scale wheels at scale spacing, i.e. to P4 standards or better. I hope prototypical accuracy has not been sacrificed to appease the toy market.

I did ask Rails of Sheffield about this issue when the model was first proposed following my disappointment that the Hornby NBR J36 can only be converted to scale with some significant rebuilding. They promised to get back to me but despite several prompts they never responded to my concerns.

I am waiting to be pleasantly surprised but suspect I am going to be disappointed.

Tony B
I also contacted Rails regarding the tender patches applied in later life and the hugely overscale smokebox wheel. I dont remember getting a response but pleased to note that the tenders carry the patches in BR versions, but apparently still the "carbuncle" on the smokebox. Hopefully that will be an easy fix. Although expensive, still the first and best RTR CR MODEL as opposed to TOY,123, and eagerly awaited. Hopefully a Jumbo, Standard passenger and Pickersgill will follow ........
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Rails have sent out emails last week advising availability of limited numbers of the forthcoming Bachmann 812 Class locos with sound.
On phone this morning, they tell me that the files used are believed to be genuine CR locos files and that an upgrade of order is possible.
Does anyone know the source of these files and confirm genuine CR and do you feel that already pricey locos are worth the extra £100 for sound?

Thoughts would be appreciated.
P.
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by Jim Summers »

I don't know the origin of these sound files, but Carina Maccall of our Association was instrumental in getting the Caledonian decoder from SW Digital to market. That used recordings, specially made, of 828. I would imagine that RAILS also used that prototype and that a lot depends on whether is was a casual recording or specially arranged. Maybe others have more information.

Properly done, sound is a real bonus, but it's a personal decision.

JimS
WCML55.68
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Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Thanks for that Jim.

It was an agonising decision to commit £180-200 to each 818 ordered. They seem expensive compared to the other specials being produced and same situation now whether to upgrade to sound which will increase to £280-300 per loco although £100 isnt too bad for a sound installation.
I commented to Rails on the price of the portholes compared to earlier releases and their reply included the words "when it comes to a niche market".
Lets hope that this upward spiral of prices doesnt extend to further CR releases.
Orbiston
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by Orbiston »

To be honest the price of a DJH jumbo with motor and wheels is close to £300 and then you've got to botch sorry build it yourself, paint it and line it. If there are other CR releases at the £200 mark I'll be first in the queue.
WCML55.68
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Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Fair comment on both points and one thing is for sure, not many people could replicate the elaborate lining and finish as effectively as the forthcoming CR 828 and my order is eagerly awaited.
But at £180 for a basic black loco, it still seems expensive to me and to add sound will leave little change out of £1000 for 2 BR and 1 as built in CR Blue. Compare this to the £126 for a HornbyJ36 Haig in December 2018 which surely would have a similar market potential.
Apart from the "carbuncle" on the smokebox door and the other faults pointed out by other members, Ive noticed that the profile of the dome on all the photos Ive found of 57565 is much flatter and squarer. We will just have to wait and see what comes, hopefully soon.
I do hope that the loco is a success and will lead to further prototype models, I suspect a Standard Passenger 0-4-4T would be a safe bet as a prototype still exists but are we going to be looking at a £250-300 cost?
Similar exclusive models produced recently have been the RAILS 10000/1 and Kernow 10201/2/3 all of which are larger and much more complicated models where no prototype remains and have been developed from plans and photos and retailed initially considerably less than £180.
I have recently received my set of Hornby Coronation Scot coaches, exquisite new tooling and beautifully lined which averages under £43 per coach. Yet Bachmanns latest Porthole Coach which appears to be a simple re-livery release of existing tooling, (I did much of the research into fleet numbers and background research and rather hoped for some freebies !!) retail at some £67.95. To compare, first release July 2014 in BR crimson/cream were between £32-36, second release January 2017 BR maroon £46.71 and third April 2021 BR blue/grey £67.95. All Rails prices.
My worry is that the way prices are spiralling, Bachmann are going to price themselves out of the market.
caleyJim
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by caleyJim »

While still not cheap I note TMC has at least some of the Blue/Grey Porthole stock on offer at £68 at the moment, apparently a £12 reduction! :shock:
caleyJim
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by caleyJim »

Wait a mo! Just reread the previous post. That brings them down to the price previously mentioned... Inflate the price then mark it down?
WCML55.68
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Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

caleyJim wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:53 pm While still not cheap I note TMC has at least some of the Blue/Grey Porthole stock on offer at £68 at the moment, apparently a £12 reduction! :shock:
They are £79.95 RRP on Bachmanns website but generally available around £68 which is the usual 15% allowed. But Ive noticed the first to break free on ebay here at £55. Both versions are listed.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324671800501 ... Sw94JgeYP-
WCML55.68
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Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

The seller in the link above dropped the But it now price to £50 but I see that they have reverted to the original price now. Maybe through pressure from Bachmann???
WCML55.68
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Re: CR 812 Class from Rails

Post by WCML55.68 »

Time to get the Credit Cards ready.

https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news ... intosh-812
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