C R Pullman

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
Post Reply
dumb buffer
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 pm

C R Pullman

Post by dumb buffer »

I came upon this advert in the back pages of the "Toddler", but when I tried the website I got a warning "THIS SITE IS DANGEROUS. DO NOT ENTER".

Does anybody know anything about it?

Allan F
IMG_20200216_0001.jpg
IMG_20200216_0001.jpg (113.86 KiB) Viewed 5811 times
Sinclair
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by Sinclair »

Allan,

The site links to a Shapeways shop where he sells 3-d prints. No personal experience with either Shapeways or this seller.

This Pullman seems to be available in a range of scales including 4mm - see https://www.shapeways.com/product/F5LM ... ion-coach?

£78 to order a printed body only.

Sinclair
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Hello Allan

It's on the Shapeways site

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/recreat ... 6+versions

and costs £78.32.

Best

Mike
jasp
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by jasp »

I have been aware of this but did not do anything about it because of the cost.
Jim P
Argos
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by Argos »

I do have one of his railcars in 2mm scale for an irish model I am building.
It is a fair representation, correct in all dimensions as far as I can see it but suffers from the usual Shapeways malaise of noticeable layering in the print and oversized window bars to enable the print.
It has taken a lot of work to get it smooth which in turn has removed most of the detail.
I was aware of this when I bought it so not a complaint.
I've seen much better prints come of more modern amateur resin printers (at cheaper cost too).

I am tempted by the model but cost and the fact I will lose most of the detail I am paying for puts me off.
Still If I want the C&O observation coach in 2mm scale it's that or scratch build.
dumb buffer
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by dumb buffer »

I'm with Jim P on this. It would be an unusual model to have on the layout, but I can't just couple behind a Jumbo, as I can do with the directors' saloon. I've never dealt with a 3D printed model so I was curious.

Allan F
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

Still on Caley Pullmans but to change the focus a bit, I've been looking at the Pullmans trying to deduce the best way forward to produce a kit but leaving that aside for the moment...

It strikes me as curious that the buffet cars which were rostered to run with the non-corridor 'Edinburgh and Glasgow Direct' 12 wheel stock (hence the need for the lav. not present in the contemporary diners) only seated 21 patrons. I wonder if anyone has ever come across any rational for this low number? The fares and the buffet take could hardly justify the cost of hauling the vehicle surely?

Jim :D
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

I don't know whether it's odd or not, Jim. Two of the sets made six journeys per weekday and the other made four. So a typical set's potential earnings per day were 126 x 1 shilling supplementary fare - £6 6s and you wouldn't expect full occupancy. The typical price of a meal was 3 shillings in 1920 and I wouldn't have thought there were many takers for those on such a short trip, more likely a glass or cup of something plus a snack, say another shilling. Of course I don't know the attendant's wages, plus any other overheads. Maintenance was down to the CR.

Anyway, it wasn't the Caley's problem, was it? The CR got the prestige and stuck one to the NBR on a competitive route - longer journey time but luxury.

Best

Mike
Last edited by MIKEWILLIAMS on Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

Mike

You are probably correct about the prestige. As well as the attendant's wages and maintenance, it must have cost a fair bit in coal to haul such heavy coaches back and forth. I wonder why a 2+1 layout (per the diners) was not adopted to give scope for a little more revenue? Perhaps 'market research' indicated 21 was suffice for the potential patronage? Were there any letters in the Glasgow Herald from "Indignant of Park Circus" about not being able to secure a seat?

Jim :D
Keith Fenwick
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:46 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by Keith Fenwick »

Standard First class seating in Pullman cars of that era was 1 + 1 so the layout of the observation car was not unusual.

To the cost of staff had to be added the cost of replacements for the curved ends which were not robust.
Keith F
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

Keith

I think the observation car 'Maid of Morven' is a different kettle of fish. It is the rational for the very limited seating in the buffet cars (which were rostered, at least initially, with non-corridor stock) that I am trying to understand.

Jim :D
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

BTW: I note from Peter Tatlow's article in LMS Journal No. 25 that the LMS did indeed have the cars modified to a 2+1 arrangement in 1926 bringing the max. occupancy up to 27.

Jim :D
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

I've just been informed that February's Steam Days has an article on the CR Pullmans. I was asked to contribute to this in February last year and it's finally made the streets - not "True to Time"

Best

Mike
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

Thanks for the heads up Mike.
Jim Summers
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by Jim Summers »

Yes, it is a good article and with a good variety of photographs.

The author, John Macnab, is an old work colleague of mine. He written extensively about his life as a clerk at places like Bonnybridge, Grangemouth, Denny and Bo'ness, but he particularly enjoyed being in the Coaching Stock Section where he maintained - and kept in retirement - the details of the fleet, so he is your go-to man for the period with the demise of the remaining pre-grouping and Grouping stock.

Incidentally, he must be one of the very few, if any, railway folk who worked in the old NB offices in the Wardlaw Kirk at Queen St.

JimS
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: C R Pullman

Post by caleyJim »

Finally managed to get a copy of Feb's Steam Days today. The Pullman article is quite good but I don't think it contributes anything new to the body of knowledge on these coaches.

Jim :D
Post Reply