782 class livery livery

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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Kelvin White
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:05 pm

782 class livery livery

Post by Kelvin White »

I’ve acquired a 7mm made up etched brass Meteor Models 29 / 782 0-6-0T
It’s in need of stripping and repainting

I’m modelling the late Caledonian / Early LMS period

The Caledonian Livery book is sold out,

What livery would these locomotives carried in the late Caledonian era, I presume black, any lining?
What type of lettering, can somebody provide a photograph please.

was the the inside of the cab totally black, or were the inside of the cab a lighter colour. I presume the floor would of been unpainted wood.

Source of appropriate CR decals / transfers?

What early LMS livery did the 782s carry - large numbers or LMS on tank sidesk
Any lining?
A photo would be useful

Source of 7mm early LMS transfers / decals

Thanks
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by Alan K »

Hi Kelvin
For pictures of 782's in both CR and LMS liveries you really need to look at the FLS gallery available to you as a CRA member.

CR liveried engines
Non Westinghouse fitted always black overall, with lined panels featuring 3/16" thick vermilion and white lines, 1 3/8" apart, vermilion line to outside on each panel. But around cast number plate, vermilion is nearest no. plate and white line furthest.
Buffer beams were vermilion with black edge and a white line separating the two. Lettering on buffer beams would be "C.R" to left of hook and "No XXX" to the right. Buffer casings had vermilion & white lines with vermilion nearest buffer head.
Cab rear roof edge, Ramsbottom safety valve (a must for Caley livery engines!) easing lever and internal motion would be vermilion.
Tank sides would have CR separated by the crest.
Rivetted smokebox is a "no no" for the CR period: even after grouping if there had been major works which resulted in re- rivetting the smokebox, the engine would have gone to the Paint Shop and come out LMS-ified!
I think Fox does transfers for CR engines in most scales.

LMS liveried engines
Definitely for the less adventurous!
You probably need to find photos for the engine no. you want to portray to pinpoint the livery, but my suggestion for the early post grouping would be what Essery & Jenkinson call "Code C2" livery, ie 18" numbers on tank sides and round cornered red LMS panels on bunker sides. All black, with no lining. And maybe a numberplate above smokehouse door.....
For the 18" numbers, there seems to be some controversity about whether these were shaded or plain yellow/ gold. HMRS/ Peter Chatham - who did the notes for the Methfix/Pressfix transfers - would have you believe that they were always shaded, but after studying photos I'm not so sure and Essery/Jenkinson (who ought to be the definitive ones) only mention it in passing. See my thread 'Dock Tank Deviations' in the Questions and Answers section.
Ramsbottom safety valves wouldn't be out of place completely, but Ross 'Pop' valves were more prevalent quite quickly. The same theme would apply for flush rivetted smokeboxes. I think that the first re- boilering would sweep all that away, and it would be visible rivets and Ross valves....
HMRS transfers are definitely available for LMS liveries in 7mm scale, but there may be others.

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by jimwatt2mm »

To the right of the front hook was just the number 'xxx', no 'No'.

Jim W
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by Alan K »

Oops! Thanks for spotting that Jim - embarassing considering the several pages of plates showing only buffer beams in the Liveries book!
Another mistake I've just spotted is that I implied that Westinghouse-fitted engines were an exception to all 782's being black. In fact there were no blue 782's at all. Although Jim McIntosh does quote a story that a 782 sent to Yorkshire Engine Co. for repairs in 1919 came back painted blue.....!

Alan
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by Alan K »

I forgot about the interior paint scheme. Caledonian official scheme was 'buff or grained on roof and down to waist level and chocolate or black below with ornamental brown dado'. Essery & Jenkinson (LMS Locomotives Volume 3) doesn't appear to have anything to say about interior colours. It's not so easy to see colours in the gloom of cab interiors: I've gone for cream/buff above waist-line and black below for my CR and LMS engines.....

Alan
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by caleyJim »

You'll find details of the LMS treatment of cab interiors on Page 228 of Vol. 1 of E&J.
Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 09.37.08.png
Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 09.37.08.png (70.04 KiB) Viewed 1858 times
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

There are 409 images in the SLS photo collection which include a class 782, dating from all eras.

Best

Mike
Kelvin White
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:05 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by Kelvin White »

Mike Williams

How do I access SLS photo collection

Thanks

Kelvin
Sinclair
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: 782 class livery livery

Post by Sinclair »

Kelvin,

Full details available in the Association Resources section of the Forum at https://www.crassoc.org.uk/forum/viewto ... f=3&t=1505

I’ll register you on the system and send you log in details to your email.

Sinclair
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