CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by lindsay_g »

I am currently well entrenched in the build of a number of horse boxes destined for a layout of Barnton (don't ask! - history slightly distorted for variety/interest sake - but surely you can image horses racing across "Cammo Downs" presently being covered in houses/flats between Barnton/Maybury). I'm actually getting round to the build of a Caley horse box - a Diagram 8 from London Road Models - which had been deferred for a number of reasons but since the kit design has proven no worse than all the other kits I might as well have had it further up the priority list. However, all that bumff aside, I have a couple of questions :

One of the joys of building all the horse boxes from North of England/Scottish pre grouping companies is that they were dual braked. I haven't come across any images showing the hoses/piping arrangement at the end of one of the Dia 8 boxes - do any exist? (I can see what is presumably the wider vacuum pipe in the image on P198 of the wagon book but no W/H fittings - was that taken in the LMS era?). Alternatively, does anyone have a copy of Drawing No 6100 (see the wagon book P196) which details some aspects of dual braking?

The same drawing on P196 shows the groom's compartment door hinged to the right (inboard). However, an image in the Filesaver shows box no 8 hinges to the left (outboard at the groom's seat side). Did both exist?

Oh the joys of modelling something that existed so long ago!

Lindsay
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Lindsay, there are two pictures in the NRM St. Rollox collection. I'll PM them to you - for personal research only, don't want to get busted for copyright infringement! Drawing 6100 hasn't survived to my knowledge.

Best

Mike
lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by lindsay_g »

Mike,

Many thanks for sending these images. I did come across them on the Filemaster site but because of the on-line resolution couldn't zoom in well enough. However, I can zoom in a lot more on the images sent. In one image I think I can make out that the first box is dual fitted with the vacuum pipe to the left. I'm assuming the Westinghouse pipe is to the right rather than a steam pipe but I could stand corrected on that as no pipe can be made out leading to the emergency gear. May be my imagination but I think a steam pipe might be hanging between them. If that is the case it accords with the plan of a CR double horse box in Peter Tatlow's Historic Carriage Drawings NPCS book (but have no idea of the origins of the drawing).

In the other image the roof fittings can be seen which is quite helpful. All appear to have 2 ventilators and a lamp.

Lindsay
caleyJim
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by caleyJim »

Got a feeling (but no proof) that drawing is one of the late John Boyle's.
lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by lindsay_g »

I'm modifying my assumption regarding the hinging of the grooms doors. Having studied the few images I have of this diagram of box and the double horse box, all doors are hinged to the left. A quick look through images of carriages on my PC also establishes that all doors seemed to be hinged to the left. Obviously makes construction and maintenance easier.

So holes on the etched sides of my model are being filled in and new holes drilled. That should ensure that someone unearths an image of a horsebox door hinged the other way!

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: CR Diagram 8 Horsebox Querstions

Post by Alan K »

Re position of vacuum and Westinghouse pipes, I think there was a convention. For example, on the GA drawing of the Diagram 39 van (p176 of the Wagon Book), there is an alteration which is annotated 'Westinghouse pipe altered to right hand side on dual fitted vehicles' dated 1/3/1900.
If I read the drawing correctly, the plan view shows the change at each end, and the side elevation shows the (hatched)Westinghouse pipe
in front of the Vacuum pipe at the left hand end. So my interpretation is that when facing the end of the vehicle the Westinghouse pipe should be to the right of the draw-hook. On this vehicle, the rigid sleeve of the vacuum pipe seems to be cranked so that the pipe is actually above the draw-hook, but the Westinghouse pipe is still to the right of the Vacuum one.

Alan
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