Coach Roofs

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
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jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Coach Roofs

Post by jimwatt2mm » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:48 pm

Like Jim S, I'm moving Lindsay's query to a new topic. He asks:
It's also a good photo for studying coach roofs with many shades of grey in evidence, varying roof heights and curvatures, etc.. The coach in the foreground (the experts will be able to identify this - I'll be able to do likewise when the definitive coach book is published) has rainstrips which are in evidence on all other similar coaches (judging by the pattern of vents) but all other coaches (barring one) are devoid of rainstrips. Why the demarcation?

The coaches with rainstrips are 45' bogie vehicles, while those without are 4 and 6 wheeled coaches. The coach in the foreground is clearly a 45' 8 compartment 3rd with a smoking compartment at either end, evidenced by the two 'HAVOK' vents at each end. Note also the gas pipe running alongside the lamp tops. The second last vehicle on the other train would appear identical, while the third last would appear to be an electrically lit example - no lamp tops evident.

I haven't taken the time to examine the other coaches in an attempt to identify them.

Jim W

Barry Rhys
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by Barry Rhys » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:29 am

Jim, as you haven't actually mentioned the original topic in which the photo and Lindsay's query were located for future generations of Sherlock Holmes's 8-) , I hope you'll forgive me reposting the corresponding photograph of Biggar station, probably taken in 1906 at the time of the Highland Games at Peebles and kindly posted by John Lindsay in the Quintishill Conspiracy topic :
Biggar Station - cropped.jpg
Biggar Station - cropped.jpg (133.02 KiB) Viewed 3258 times
I'm equally interested in an answer to this question, but unfortunately can't help.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

JimG
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by JimG » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:43 am

jimwatt2mm wrote: The coaches with rainstrips are 45' bogie vehicles, while those without are 4 and 6 wheeled coaches. The coach in the foreground is clearly a 45' 8 compartment 3rd with a smoking compartment at either end, evidenced by the two 'HAVOK' vents at each end. Note also the gas pipe running alongside the lamp tops. The second last vehicle on the other train would appear identical, while the third last would appear to be an electrically lit example - no lamp tops evident.
When did electrical lighting start being fitted to coaches? I thought it was much later than 1906. I remember reading that the Quintinshill accident accelerated the removal of gas lighting from coaches.

JimG.

Barry Rhys
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by Barry Rhys » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 am

Jim, electric lighting definitely started being fitted to new built Caledonian stock previous to 1906. I had in mind (wrongly as it turns out) that the earliest stock I had seen fitted were the 50' corridor stock from 1902, as seen in the first photo of this post showing 50' Third No 982 to order H202 built in 1902, posted by Dave Lochrie in the 'Changeover from Mansell Carriage Wheels' topic. However in the very same post Dave included a photo of 50'3" Family Saloon to order H175 of Jan 1900 with battery boxes and dynamo clearly visible.

So that's clear then? Errr, no actually. In your very own posts to the 'Passenger Cord Communication' topic you posted drawings of various 48' non-corridor coaches including one in this post of a 48' Composite to order H186 of Dec 1900, ie. nearly a year later than the 50'3" Family Saloon, all of which are fully replete with gas lamps! I wonder if the Family Saloon was fitted as an experiment for evaluation?

I'm sure someone else has the correct history available; these notes are just based on the images to hand on the Forum, thanks to you and Dave. Nevertheless, I'm sure that the Quintinshill accident did in fact accelerate the decline of gas lighting in coaches, but across British railways in general - although not all.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

Mike 1
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by Mike 1 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:44 am

Picking up this old thread about carriage roofs and gas lamps, the photograph seems to show a single gas pipe to the lamps. I have seen other (non CR) carriages with two pipes, one being for the pilot light. Does anyone know please when this came in and when (or if) the Caledonian adopted the pilot? Presumably with one pie somebody had to walk along the roofs lighting every lamp?

Mike

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:15 pm

Hello fellow Mike W
The original flat flame burner gas lights were lit from the roof - only one pipe. When incandescent burners were adopted round about 1908 the lamps were lit from inside the carriage from a pil0t light (two pipes) see CR carriages pp78-9

Best

Mike

Mike 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: Coach Roofs

Post by Mike 1 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:52 pm

Thanks Mike. Sorry I missed that in the book.

Mike

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