Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Any aspect related to the prototype stock.
Barry Rhys
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Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Barry Rhys » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:08 pm

More than a year ago while searching for Perth harbour photos for Dave Lochrie's Perth Harbour Branch topic I found this George Washington Wilson photo in the online Aberdeen University GWW archive, entitled Perth From Barnhill (photo webpage here with zoom facility). The pre-1877 date is known simply as the photo was included in the GWW company's 1877 catalogue.
Perth from Barnhill pre-1877.jpg
Perth from Barnhill pre-1877.jpg (70.17 KiB) Viewed 15676 times
At first I couldn't work out where the location of the photo was, but eventually with the help of Google Maps I was able to pin it down relative to photos in Dave's topic. The railway line is the Caley Perth to Dundee line via Invergowrie on the north bank of the Tay (or entering Perth, the east bank) in the foreground, curving across the bridge into the city and Perth station. The arched section of the bridge carries the line across Moncrieffe Island (spelling from Google Maps), now the home of both the King James VI golf course and Moncrieffe Island Allotments - in fact the 1901 map illustrated in Dave's introductory post shows the island as 'Friarton or Moncreiffe Island' with the text 'Golf Course'. As a side note, does anyone know how the golf course is/was accessed, as no route is visible on Google - is it via a path carried alongside the railway bridge?

However my particular interest is in the variety of early carriages in the sidings, especially the details of the carriage rooves and their fittings - I would recommend though clicking on the original webpage link in the first para above for a higher definition.

I've included 2 enlarged views below incorporating all of the carriages. I haven't seen many photos with such a variety of fittings before, although I'm sure they do exist. Particularly of note for me are the many examples of oil lamp tops ajar as the carriages are not in service (obviously not seen when the carriages are in operation); the central railed areas on the rooves of 3 carriages (are these for luggage storage?); and the wide variety of roof ribbing arrangements, some with more central ribs than outer, all railed sections being heavily ribbed, and especially the ribbing pattern on the front left carriage in the view below (ie. extra wide ribs through the lamps):
Perth carriages pre-1877 (enlargement1).jpg
Perth carriages pre-1877 (enlargement1).jpg (71.2 KiB) Viewed 15676 times
Note the startlingly white roof and lamps of the rear left 6-lamp coach, and the ornate curled metal decorative rails at the roof ends of the middle left carriage.
Perth carriages pre-1877 (enlargement2).jpg
Perth carriages pre-1877 (enlargement2).jpg (74.24 KiB) Viewed 15676 times
In the original high definition site virtually every hole in the oil lamp casings is visible and even countable - for example in the rear central carriage in this view the 4 lamps have 3 different hole arrangements.

I haven't even considered identification of the carriages - it's taken me enough time just getting the enlargements and digital compressions sorted out!

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

Steve Parsons
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Steve Parsons » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:03 pm

Wonderful picture thanks I'll be studying this for hours, did you have a go at zooming in on the bridge there's a good view of the signal box and some signals and what looks like a bird cage type brake van set on the bride. With this many coaches with the covers off the oil lamp holders one wonders if this is stored withdrawn stock as I cant imagine them leaving the covers off and letting the rain in on stock in use maybe the odd one might be left open but not on most of them. Thanks again Steve

dumb buffer
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by dumb buffer » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:59 pm

]This seems to have been a favourite location for photographs over the years
Perth Bridge early per RMWeb reduced.jpg
Perth Bridge early per RMWeb reduced.jpg (54.17 KiB) Viewed 15650 times
The horsebox (for such it is) is parked in the headshunt of Perth (Princes St)
Horse Box 4 reduced.jpg
Horse Box 4 reduced.jpg (60.92 KiB) Viewed 15650 times
as are the two elderly coaches here.
[attachment=0]Perth Prince's St vehicle roof heights reduced.lpg.jpg[/attachment
A later view shews a variety of liveries (but not much later, as there is only one lens on the signal).

Allan F
Attachments
Perth Prince's St vehicle roof heights reduced.lpg.jpg
Perth Prince's St vehicle roof heights reduced.lpg.jpg (120.03 KiB) Viewed 15650 times

Barry Rhys
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Barry Rhys » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:22 am

Since I had already enlarged the photo after Steve's post but before Allan's response I might as well post it here for easy comparison by the general viewership:
Perth bridge pre-1877.jpg
Perth bridge pre-1877.jpg (58.53 KiB) Viewed 15644 times
Do you know anything of these horseboxes Allan? For example, until when did they last in service? That must be one of the weirdest looking vehicles I have seen.

Now that your first photo shows the line itself much more clearly I can see that it is only single track. Can someone tell me whether it remained so all the way to Dundee? - this shows just how minimal my knowledge of such things is!

Thanks, Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:00 pm

Look in the wagon book Neil pp. 193 - 4

Best

Mike

dumb buffer
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by dumb buffer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:27 am

The line over the bridge was always, and is still, single track (although I have realised that I don't know whether the original wooden bridge was single track). The span at the West side was an opening span, providing access to the upper harbour, but it wasn't opened after about 1870.
Perth Bridge reduced.jpg
Perth Bridge reduced.jpg (116.56 KiB) Viewed 15573 times
Ray Nolton did a rather nice model of the horsebox a while back.
R Nolton Horsebox 3 reduced.jpg
R Nolton Horsebox 3 reduced.jpg (169.69 KiB) Viewed 15573 times
There is a drawing in the Association sale list of an earlier horsebox as well.

Allan F

JimG
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by JimG » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:36 am

Barry Rhys wrote:Do you know anything of these horseboxes Allan? For example, until when did they last in service? That must be one of the weirdest looking vehicles I have seen.
I reckon that the higher centre section was required to allow for the height of horses. Larger draft horses and hunters will be 17 to 18 hands at the shoulder, which equates to 5' 8" to 6' 0", and then you have to allow for the neck and head on top of that, even with the head bowed. The top of the head on an 18 hand horse must be around 7' 6" - 8' 0" high when standing normally. I can testify to having to crane up when looking at the eyes and ears of my grand-daughter's eventer, which is 17.3 hands high. Her seven month old foal ( the horse's, not my grand-daughter's :) ) is already up to 16 hands high at the shoulder.

Jim G.

IBrown
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by IBrown » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:56 am

dumb buffer wrote:The line over the bridge was always, and is still, single track (although I have realised that I don't know whether the original wooden bridge was single track). The span at the West side was an opening span, providing access to the upper harbour, but it wasn't opened after about 1870.

Allan F
I came across this video on the history of Perth station which I found very informative, especially the diagrams and maps illustrating the various proposals.

Around 5 minutes is the story of the original double line 25 arch wooden bridge over the Tay opened in 1849. Seems to have posed difficulties from the beginning. The line over the bridge was reduced to single track and a 4mph Permanent Speed Restriction imposed over it. The bridge was replaced in 1863.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA9AcoAD87c

More details on wooden bridge. Built by Sir Thomas Bouch!

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/79 ... ay+bridge/

Barry Rhys
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Barry Rhys » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:19 pm

MIKEWILLIAMS wrote:Look in the wagon book Neil pp. 193 - 4
Thanks Mike. I think I've even got that drawing separately from an old model railway mag. I had in fact searched fastidiously in the wagons book, but under Brake Vans after Steve's post. So it's not my fault.
Barry Rhys wrote:The arched section of the bridge carries the line across Moncrieffe Island (spelling from Google Maps), now the home of both the King James VI golf course and Moncrieffe Island Allotments - in fact the 1901 map illustrated in Dave's introductory post shows the island as 'Friarton or Moncreiffe Island'
Regarding the correct spelling of the island's name, I referred to the website of the King James VI Golf Club and specifically the Club History page, on which I found the following definitive answer. I quote:

"Tom Morris and Moncrieffe Island
James VI shared the 10-hole North Inch course with various other local golf clubs until 1897, when it migrated to its current setting on Moncreiffe Island."

And again on the How To Find Us page:

"Access to Moncrieffe Island is by a walkway alongside the railway bridge in Tay Street near the South Inch. Steps half way across take you under the bridge and along a footpath to the Golf Club.
Address:
Moncreiffe Island
Perth
PH2 8NR"


Good to know that proofreading is alive and well in the golf crowd. If even the island's proprietors don't know how to spell it, what chance do we mere mortals have? As from now I'll call it Friarton Island. At least though the website answers my query about access to the course.

Thanks everyone for their contributions.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

IBrown
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by IBrown » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:54 am

The bridge walkway isn't the sole access to the island, nor I suspect was it the original. I did see a photo of a causeway on the web, but was unsure of it being Moncreiffe Island. This video confirms both that it does still exist and that the river's navigable channel is on the Perth City side of the island, also confirmed by the former existence of a swing portion of the bridge at that end:


http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/ ... y-1.122142

Barry Rhys
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Barry Rhys » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:28 pm

IBrown wrote:The bridge walkway isn't the sole access to the island, nor I suspect was it the original. I did see a photo of a causeway on the web, but was unsure of it being Moncreiffe Island. This video confirms both that it does still exist...
I was amazed to see the video - the only thing I had identified on Google Maps was what appeared to be a fast flowing drop in water level at the north end of the island. But the video indeed shows that this is said causeway and that drivers actually drive across it - to quote the article:
He [the van driver] criticised the state of the causeway, which is thought to belong to the council and is the only vehicular access to Moncrieffe Island. “It’s about a foot deep where the wheel is and the rest is about two inches deep,” he said. “There was a boy just down here and he said he was here a couple of years ago and he had a problem with his van getting over and the council said they were going to fix the holes in it then.”

Local councils are buggers, aren't they.

Equally amazing are these two clips from the article: "..driving his van across the causeway linking Moncreiffe Island to Perth" then further down "..the only vehicular access to Moncrieffe Island"!! Is there some juju in Perth?

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

dumb buffer
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by dumb buffer » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:05 pm

They don't teach spelling (or grammar), even to young reporters nowadays. Nor do they teach about tides. The Tay is tidal up to the old bridge, with a range of up to 2m springs.

Allan F

IBrown
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by IBrown » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:46 pm

Going back to the original post and the coaches in the sidings at Barnhill. This was the original terminus of the line from Dundee so I expect these were the carriage servicing and stabling sidings, although they do appear on OS Maps very late (1888-1913) when they are named Barnhill sidings. I have not yet located an OS Map showing Barnhill station.

Why is coaching stock still stabled there years after the line was extended across the Tay and trains began running to Princes Street station? We have evidence from photos and OS Maps that vehicles could be and were stabled at Princes Street station and the video tells us the Company refused to use Perth General station, so its Dundee services continued to terminate at and start from Princes Street station for some time.

The CRA’s CD of track diagrams includes Barnhill and Princes Street (2 boxes there) dated 1917.
Barnhill (Perth) 1917.jpg
Barnhill signalling diagram
Barnhill (Perth) 1917.jpg (62.13 KiB) Viewed 15474 times
Barnhill shows an Up platform still extant and as there is still road access from Dundee Road at that location it is reasonable to assume that’s where the station was. The position of the sidings in relation to the former terminal station also makes good operational sense, provided there was a rounding facility within the sidings, or another connection into the sidings on the Dundee side of the box (According to Google, there’s a siding connection there today). However it’s not good for serving Princes Street.
Princes Street 1917.jpg
Princes Street station and west boxes, Perth
Princes Street 1917.jpg (92.92 KiB) Viewed 15474 times
Although Princes Street is a double track station, trains from Barnhill can only run into the Up platform. ‘Normal’ practice for ECS arriving to form a Dundee service would involve the train (with loco at Perth end) running into the Up platform, the locomotive rounding its train at the West box via the Down line and Princes Street box, then reattaching to the rear of its train and propelling it forward to the West box, to be turned there onto the Down line to start for Dundee from the Down platform.

Empty Coach Trains on the Down line from Princes Street for Barnhill sidings can’t run directly into the sidings, the connection is off the Up line.

The sidings at Princess Street are better situated for starting / terminating trains there in any direction, except for the photographic evidence that vehicles were stabled in the headshunt limiting the number of vehicles which could be turned in the remaining space between them and entrance to the sidings.

The 1915 Appendix is the wrong period but does it say anything about the working of trains between Barnhill sidings and Princes Street / Perth?

dumb buffer
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by dumb buffer » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:48 am

I don't think Princes St was ever used as a terminus after the bridge was built. It was sometimes used as a ticket platform. The 1915 Appendix says no engine to be on the swing span part of the headshunt while a train was passing on the main line.

Allan F

Dave Lochrie
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Dave Lochrie » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:29 pm

This is a veritable Pandora's Box which I think may require a new topic "The Barnhill Chronicles -less-famous railway bridge of the silv'ry Tay".
This view of Perth was one of those locations so beloved by Victorian and Edwardian photographers and postcard publishers that I now have identified nearly 30 different images from this location, postcards, engravings and printed images. I am no John Allsop, but this is a truely staggering number. I have been working through them attempting to sort into chronological order, that posted by Allan being, I think, the earliest (ie no sidings). Only 11 show rolling stock but the variety is bewildering so I rather lazily sought to leave full identification till Mike had finished the Carriage Book, where some of these photos will necessarily appear (if not as an appendix an interesting appendix in itself). As well as digital copies, I have acquired some of the postcards over the years to the point where only 2 featuring trains on the bridge have to date elluded me, though commercial colour tinting does make detailed enlargement tricky.
Barnhill Sidings, 1898.jpg
Barnhill Sidings, 1898.jpg (180.13 KiB) Viewed 15423 times
Barnhill pre-1995.jpg
Barnhill pre-1995.jpg (90.6 KiB) Viewed 15423 times
I attach a c1900 OS extract of the site and an enlargement from one of the Perth Harbour photographs showing the sidings' location from a different perspective. The footpath on the bridge has always provided a dramatic spotting location but has created surprisingly few photos prior to the advent of the digital camera. In terms of classifying the images into chronological order, I also felt that someone with a more intimate understanding of the the Perth skyline might be more suited to this than myself, but in relation to the island it is significant to record that the first allotments were let in September 1895, the Golf Course being restricted to the southern part, moving to the site according to Barry's research in 1897. The enlargement above is fuzzy but the only inhabtants visible appear to be sheep.
Barnhill Sidings c1901 -used postally 1904.jpg
Barnhill Sidings c1901 -used postally 1904.jpg (189.08 KiB) Viewed 15423 times
So what to do with this topic, is there value in posting some of the images now or are they treading too much on the territory of the Carriage Book, especially give the rarity of photographs covering the earlier period?

Dave L

Jim Summers
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Jim Summers » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:40 pm

Dave asked what to do with his treasure trove on the Barnhill and the bridge at Perth.

I can't speak for Mike of the Carriages or Alistair of the Journal, but to my mind a well-illustrated article on the bridge and its environs would look good in the Journal and still leave plenty material for the carriages book.

Jim S

tony brenchley
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Two more postcard views featuring Barnhill Sidings. Barnhill was a favourite location of the professional photographers for panoramic views or Perth.
Barrnhill Carriages 1 Forum.jpg
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The most interesting vehicle in this view is the nearest. It is obviously ex-WCJS and looks like a lavatory composite from the layout of the roof fitting. The third vehicle looks like a pre-Drummond 4 compartment first and is unusual in having white panels. Some more research (by myself) is necessary on both of these.
Barrnhill Carriages 2 Forum.jpg
Barrnhill Carriages 2 Forum.jpg (231.45 KiB) Viewed 15279 times
There is some interesting stuff in this one also. It is a pity that we can't see more of the vehicles in the back row. The first 2 are Drummond 6 compartment thirds with white panels. The next vehicle is most intriguing as it has a roof profile slightly higher than the Drummonds but looks to be oil lit with the roof caps in place. The windows are set in tall LNWR style panels but I don't think the Caley ever inherited any four wheeled ex-WCJS vehicles. Perhaps Mike Williams can identify this from the panelling style. The carriage beyond this is also of pre-Drummond vintage with white panels. In the foreground we have some more Drummond carriages the most interesting of which is the white panelled lavatory third. This is the only photograph I can remember seeing of these vehicles.

Tony B

tony brenchley
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:12 pm

At the risk of becoming boring I have found another photo of Barnhill Sidings in my files.
Barrnhill Carriages 3 Forum.jpg
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Does this suggest that Barnhill sidings were not used exclusively for carriages as most of the other photographic evidence would suggest? The wagons in the siding look as if they have been used for lime or some other light coloured load. The nearest rake could be travelling north on the down main line and also don't look like they have been carrying coal either.

The two carriages in the nearest siding are a 5 compartment Drummond first and a short 6 wheeled first of pre-Drummond origin with white panels. In the back row are several Drummond thirds and firsts in brown and brown and white livery. The nearest vehicle with the very white roof appears to have a higher roof profile than the Drummonds but I can't see enough to identify it. The most distant carriage could be an ex-WCJS bogie carriage from the style of the panelling and roof fittings.

All the photos I have posted are copies I have acquired over the years and before we had the advantages of computers and computer enhancement to copy and improve photos. Does anybody have original postcards or better copies that could help identify the vehicles?

Tony B

Dave Lochrie
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Dave Lochrie » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:52 am

This is a floodgates topic but I'm sure a TTL article will be more useful with an attempt to identify the many vehicles stored there, which is the reason I've been collecting the images in the first place, but not something I've been that successful in completing. I can usually identify the period of construction of the pre- Drummond carriages, I've seen enough of the Metropolitan drawings in John Boyle's Collection to spot the main style changes and so far I've been able to confirm that all are Caledonian vehicles, but I've not spent enough time in Birmingham Library to accurately identify individual diagrams.

I can start with a reply to some of the points Tony raised-
Does this suggest that Barnhill sidings were not used exclusively for carriages as most of the other photographic evidence would suggest? The wagons in the siding look as if they have been used for lime or some other light coloured load. The nearest rake could be travelling north on the down main line and also don't look like they have been carrying coal either.
This is a guess based on observation but I think the wagons are being used for ballast (even though none of them pepresent any of the specialist ballast diagrams. If you look at the map above and the signalling diagram you can see that the wagons are adjacent to an "Old Quarry" probably building stone for nearby villas or possible the viaduct itself as this would be normal practice. I doubt if quality building stone would have been wasted on ballast production but the hole in the ground and siding was too good to waste.
If you look at a close-up of the picture Allan posted, which is one of the earlier views, and if you can divert attention away from the Stevens wooden post signal with integral rungs, the 3 non-ballast wagons in the siding are parked alongside neat stacks of ballast and the wagon furthest away seems to have traces of the same material. This may just represent work in progress as the main line does look especially well-ballasted for the period, so a tempory arrangement that may have persisted. Can anything be taken from the provision of a ground disc controlling the exit from the siding, for example, does this imply it was more than trap siding for the line to Dundee?
BARNHILL 2.jpg
BARNHILL 2.jpg (554.99 KiB) Viewed 15234 times
Does anybody have original postcards or better copies that could help identify the vehicles?
I do have a few, though in some cases the originals have been hand tinted which whilst attractive does tend to obscure detail. Some have elluded me such as this por quality example from the internet (not ebay as I would probably have bought it) which appears the same as the tinted shot I posted but actually is one of 2 views showing a train crossing the bridge.
BARNHILL 9.jpg
BARNHILL 9.jpg (97.95 KiB) Viewed 15234 times
Dave L

IBrown
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by IBrown » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:10 pm

Jim Summers wrote:Dave asked what to do with his treasure trove on the Barnhill and the bridge at Perth.

I can't speak for Mike of the Carriages or Alistair of the Journal, but to my mind a well-illustrated article on the bridge and its environs would look good in the Journal and still leave plenty material for the carriages book.

Jim S
Do photographs exist of the original wooden bridge? I assume it will be similar in construction to other contemporaries e.g Jerviston viaduct at Motherwell, but longer e.g some of Brunel's viaducts on the London - Plymouth line?

Dave Lochrie
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Dave Lochrie » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:18 pm

I have one postcard image Ian, which looks like a retouched photo, I'll upload it when I get home later tonight. If my memory serves the curved side timbers seem more solid (or less skeletal) than the original Jerviston Viaduct, but it couldn't have been that solid lasting less than 15 years.. mind you thats longer than Bouch's later attempt to build further down the River. There have been apologists for Bouch saying that not all the blame should rest with him, but at very least he was over-ambitious and at worst truely incompetent. To misquote Wilde "to loose one bridge is unfortunate, but to loose both..."

Dave L

dumb buffer
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by dumb buffer » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:22 pm

There is quite a reasonable photograph of the wooden bridge in the Scottish Central book, on p154, also a rather poorer reproduction of a painting on p100. I have never seen another picture of the bridge.

Allan F

IBrown
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by IBrown » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:52 pm

Dave Lochrie wrote:I have one postcard image Ian, which looks like a retouched photo, I'll upload it when I get home later tonight. If my memory serves the curved side timbers seem more solid (or less skeletal) than the original Jerviston Viaduct, but it couldn't have been that solid lasting less than 15 years.. mind you thats longer than Bouch's later attempt to build further down the River. There have been apologists for Bouch saying that not all the blame should rest with him, but at very least he was over-ambitious and at worst truely incompetent. To misquote Wilde "to loose one bridge is unfortunate, but to loose both..."

Dave L
Well, I had not known Perth Tay Bridge was a Bouch bridge until this thread went up. It makes 4 bridge failures of his that I now know of - the original viaduct over the South Esk at Montrose was 'tested to destruction' by the Inspecting Officer because he didn't like the look of it; and the viaduct over the Breich Water on the NBR Addiewell Oil Works Branch despite being strengthened by NBR was restricted to 10mph during its lifetime.

Dave Lochrie
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Dave Lochrie » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:38 am

I have one postcard image Ian, which looks like a retouched photo, I'll upload it when I get home later tonight.
As promised, still unsure if its an enhanced photo or what?
BARNHILL 0.JPG
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There is quite a reasonable photograph of the wooden bridge in the Scottish Central book, on p154, also a rather poorer reproduction of a painting on p100. I have never seen another picture of the bridge.
Hadn't thought Allan, of that but at least this increases the known images by 50%.
Photo of the replacement from a similar location, for comparison.
BARNHILL 01.jpg
BARNHILL 01.jpg (131.91 KiB) Viewed 15182 times
Dave L

Dave Lochrie
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Re: Carriages at Perth pre-1877

Post by Dave Lochrie » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:41 am

Further to my coments earlier on the possible reason for the regular presence of wagon at the carriage sidings, here are the bottom right-hand corner of 2 other pictures.
The first is from around 1880 and shows a rake of 2 or 3 plank open wagons, which could possibly be Ballast Wagons..
BARNHILL 6.5.jpg
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The second is from a German issued postcard of the same period (don't ask!), this time showing a mineral wagon containing what appears to be uncrushed rock (could there have been a crusher located in the old quarry?)
BARNHILL 5.5.jpg
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As part of the wider issue I went through all the different images of this location and counted 84 different carriages (full and partially visible) of over 72 different Diagrams only a handful of which show Drummond or later vehicles!

Dave L

Edit, following Tony's comments re source material have just checked through the original postcards I have aquired over the years and have just found another colour-tinted postcard, I had omitted to scan, which has 25 carriages of which only 5 are likely to be identifiable. It's post-1895 (Postally used Perth, 21 Aug 1905) but only just as the allotments are not as full as on other views. Oddly although all the trees are leafless only a single gas-lit 4 compartment vehicle has any light fittings in place, but as this may be the most packed I've seen the sidings, with all 3 full, it may suggest they may be additional carriages used to supplement summer services.
BARNHILL 22.jpg
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