Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
WCML55.68
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

A first look, getting close now, chimneys conquered using 2 sections of acrylic taper ear stretchers for each vented pot. A very hard material to work with and a small jig has been made to clamp and aid square and accurate length cutting with a razor saw. Thats the beauty of scratchbuilding. Get one wrong, you just chuck and make another. At least 4 fairly accurate and matching ones have now been achieved. Just the windows, doors, downspouts and rafters tailends behind the bargeboards and a good paint and weathering job and then on to the two storey house. Can anyone guess why the chimney pots are arranged 1 4 3 3 1 and why certain pots were vented ones? :roll: The top view is the A74 side, a very similar view is in The Power of the Black Fives P107. The lower shot is what would have been seen from the embankment on a train ascending Beattock Bank. Photographs are scarce, believe me.
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Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Looking good Paul. How many dwellings are there? I can see 3 maybe 4 doors...
Are you able to source windows the right size for your openings? There appears to be a number of suppliers who do casement style windows so you might be lucky (or did you very wisely design it to fit something already available!). If you're into soldering, it's quite straightforward to make a reasonable go at cast iron using 1.5mm copper wire and 0.3mm wire to form the typical joints. I've got some photos of the ones I made for my boilerworks building if you're interested. Jim Watt shows the same method used in 2mm for his warehouse in Kirkallanmuir - pictures in RMWeb.

Alan
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

The sash windows on my warehouse were all etched from my own artwork.

Jim W
Alan K
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Oops! Just noticed that I missed out the word 'down pipe' after 'cast iron' which changes the meaning quite a lot!

Alan
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Alan K wrote:Looking good Paul. How many dwellings are there? I can see 3 maybe 4 doors...
Are you able to source windows the right size for your openings? There appears to be a number of suppliers who do casement style windows so you might be lucky (or did you very wisely design it to fit something already available!). If you're into soldering, it's quite straightforward to make a reasonable go at cast iron using 1.5mm copper wire and 0.3mm wire to form the typical joints. I've got some photos of the ones I made for my boilerworks building if you're interested. Jim Watt shows the same method used in 2mm for his warehouse in Kirkallanmuir - pictures in RMWeb.

Alan
Morning Alan,

Thanks for the encouragement! Theres a lot of work gone into these so far, nearly two years, its the hardest thing Ive ever built! but much of that was spent sourcing the right materials, getting the right appearance such as the chimney pot saga and experimenting with plasticard to prevent it warping . So far so good. Theres 4 dwellings, 605, 607, 609, and 611 Carlisle Road! Even have a couple of surnames of the occupants. Windows, Ive not found anything suitable despite numerous purchases, they are quite distinctive with 4 oblong panes over six oblong panes. Ive never really worked in metal much and with such a large quantity to do and the need for similarity, Ive been experimenting with plastruct and Evergreen strip along with Javis clear. This has one huge advantage, Plasweld will stick the parts to the clear but does not cloud it. Big bonus. Still experimenting. If you could upload a couple of shots that would be great, thanks.

Regards Paul.
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WCML55.68
Posts: 168
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

jimwatt2mm wrote:The sash windows on my warehouse were all etched from my own artwork.

Jim W
Morning Jim,

This sounds very interesting, its something Ive thought about but no idea how to go about it. Would certainly take a lot of pressure off the eyes.

Regards Paul.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

WCML55.68 wrote:
This sounds very interesting, its something Ive thought about but no idea how to go about it. Would certainly take a lot of pressure off the eyes.
Hi Paul,

Here is a photo of the etch along with one soldered up, with another on edge to show the slots for the glazing, and one finished.
windows forum.JPG
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The sash windows comprise 5 layers, allowing the gazing to be slipped in after painting. On the left is the fret for three of the ground floor windows and at top right is one assembled with, beside it, one sitting on edge to show the slots for the glazing. Below that is an upper floor window painted and glazed.

I drew the artwork in AutoCAD and it was etched for me by PPD.

There's more details of the building starting at the bottom of this post on RMWebhttp://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... try2782195

Jim W
Alan K
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

That's an ingenious method for windows Jim. I guess it's the same principle used with the Silhouette for styrene.

This is the photo of the down-pipes
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It's more or less the same as Jim's method. The thin wire which is wrapped around the pipe wire needs to be quite soft so that it can be twisted into a 'peg' for fixing. I found that the wire I had tended to break on twisting. I also soldered a thin (0.25mm) strip between the 2 wires to simulate the joint body. My down-pipe was 2mm -ie a larger diameter than the domestic size, and I had to invest in a bigger (40w) soldering iron as my normal 18w iron wasn't up to it - the copper wire conducted away the heat too quickly!
I did make down-pipes using 1.5mm and 0.4mm Plastruct styrene rod with Evergreen 0.25 x 1mm strip (they're the ones on the corrugated iron part), but I found it tricky to apply the very small quantities of solvent needed -too much and it dissolves!

Alan
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

jimwatt2mm wrote:
WCML55.68 wrote:
This sounds very interesting, its something Ive thought about but no idea how to go about it. Would certainly take a lot of pressure off the eyes.
Hi Paul,

Here is a photo of the etch along with one soldered up, with another on edge to show the slots for the glazing, and one finished.
windows forum.JPG
The sash windows comprise 5 layers, allowing the gazing to be slipped in after painting. On the left is the fret for three of the ground floor windows and at top right is one assembled with, beside it, one sitting on edge to show the slots for the glazing. Below that is an upper floor window painted and glazed.

I drew the artwork in AutoCAD and it was etched for me by PPD.

There's more details of the building starting at the bottom of this post on RMWebhttp://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... try2782195

Jim W
Gosh Jim, those are quite something, although I bet they still take a considerable amount of skill patience and eyesight to assemble!. Ive been experimenting all week and think I may have come up with an MO to get reasonable results. If my try this weekend is OK I will post details and a photo tomorrow night. Regards P.
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Alan K wrote:That's an ingenious method for windows Jim. I guess it's the same principle used with the Silhouette for styrene.

This is the photo of the down-pipes
IMG_4667.JPG
It's more or less the same as Jim's method. The thin wire which is wrapped around the pipe wire needs to be quite soft so that it can be twisted into a 'peg' for fixing. I found that the wire I had tended to break on twisting. I also soldered a thin (0.25mm) strip between the 2 wires to simulate the joint body. My down-pipe was 2mm -ie a larger diameter than the domestic size, and I had to invest in a bigger (40w) soldering iron as my normal 18w iron wasn't up to it - the copper wire conducted away the heat too quickly!
I did make down-pipes using 1.5mm and 0.4mm Plastruct styrene rod with Evergreen 0.25 x 1mm strip (they're the ones on the corrugated iron part), but I found it tricky to apply the very small quantities of solvent needed -too much and it dissolves!

Alan
Morning Alan,

LOL at your copper acting as a heatsink! You couldnt make it up! The trials of modelling. I had thought of using Evergreen styrene rod as downpipes, yet to trial this one as theres a few bends, but your method sounds very interesting Ive got quite a lot of copper and brass rods and tubes in the bitsbox, so might have a play. Is fuse wire any use for the ties? Presumably can go through a pre-drilled hole and be splayed out at rear, bearing in mind the whole row of cottages is plastic. There is a pack of Ratio Building Details which includes downspouts but no bends and theyre moulded half section so two required to assemble. Dont fancy them much.

Regards P.

Regards P.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

WCML55.68 wrote: Gosh Jim, those are quite something, although I bet they still take a considerable amount of skill patience and eyesight to assemble!. Ive been experimenting all week and think I may have come up with an MO to get reasonable results. If my try this weekend is OK I will post details and a photo tomorrow night. Regards P.
The etch is designed so that the 5 layers fold over on one another like a concertina before separating it from the frame, so it's very simple to assemble. There are three windows on one etch with a frame round them, so three get assembled in one go. There's no good reason why you couldn't have more! The main thing I learnt from the trial etch was not to be too fastidious about getting the layers tight together as that makes it difficult to slide in the 10 thou glazing. Its also useful to use a piece of etch edging to slide into the slots to make sure they are clear. The big benefit of this method is that the windows can be painted prior to glazing them, so there is no risk of getting paint on the glazing.

I used the same idea, i.e. a slot for the glazing, on the model of Dunblane footbridge featured in the Forum review in the latest TTL. If anyone is interested the finished article can be seen at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... try3311447 .

As regards downpipes, yes, it's fuse wire or single strands for multi-strand 13A cable which I use for the 'joints'. I just twist the ends together at the back and then glue them into holes in the wall.

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Morning,

Unfortunately the windows are to scale and there doesny seem to be anything suitable on the market, hardly surprising. So either scratchbuilt or a commission, thanks for all the suggestions.

This was yesterdays attempt at producing a frame using Plastruct Channel section 90531, starting with a backplate plasticard frame with an opening which is 1mm smaller than the actual window and Mekpak lengths of the channel base and sides to allow the glazing to slide in after painting. The glazing bars are a method I used for a 2mm layout many years ago, simply scoring clear with a scalpel once or twice at gentle pressure. The effect is phenomenal from normal viewing distance and fits my needs OK. On a larger sheet such as signal box windows, it gives the impression of stained glass with reflections at different angles. Today we will try to include a Casement effect and once the final MO is decided, will set up the jig to mass produce the necessary lengths of channel, squarely.

The method of preventing Plasticard and embossed sheeting warping is clearly visible here and applies to roof and walls alike. 60 or even 80 thou plasticard is drilled at regular ¼" intervals the next row up being positioned between the existing row of holes to form a giant X pattern pegboard but not in a way to interfere with any edges of window or door openings. Then any swarf is sanded off using a reasonably coarse wet n dry or sandpaper and to score the bonding surface. Then a light sand and wipeover. All windows and doors are cut into the correct size stone walling sheet and all swarf removed. Remember that the corners have to allow for the walling to join so the pegboard must remain slightly smaller.
I acquired many years ago about a dozen blocks of 2x2" hardwood accurately machined, cutoffs from another job. They have proved invaluable to act as a cradle for the cottages to allow for protrusions such as the rear extension and front gables or to lift a job closer to the eyes. In this case they have been used as weights. An absolutely flat surface, stone walling face down. Position the pegboard over the stone wall correctly and face down. Then a drop of Mekpak around all the holes and any openings. Blocks of wood on top and leave overnight. The holes and sanding allow the Mekpak to travel via capillary action and also to allow any trapped Mekpak to escape and evaporate or it will escape by dissolving the walling. Result is a dead straight and bombroof section ready for use. A simple job to open up all the windows in the pegboard to the same as the walling. This also means the thickness of the stone walls is already ready for window frames to be installed. Once all the parts are assembled, I used sections of Plastruct angle to reinforce the corners.

The roofing is WILLS. Fantastic appearance until you come to join two pieces together and find that the rows dont match up. Four sheets have been carefully matched as best possible using the chimney stacks to reduce the length of the joins, and after application, a combination of sometimes repeated applications of green stuff and very careful trimming and scraping with a scalpel under a set of loupes has produced a reasonably matching effect.

So back to the workbench now.

TTFN Paul.
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lindsay_g
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by lindsay_g »

Hi all,

Back to downpipes again briefly. My variation on downpipes is to use suitably sized brass tube if you wish to model plain straight lengths of pipe as the tube profile adds some strength for keeping them straight. If modelling pipes with bends in them, most commonly for reaching out over the eaves, I'd use copper wire from stripped 1.5mm or 2.5mm electrical cable depending on diameter of pipe. For simulating the joints, I use fine brass wire that forms a mesh on some bottles of Rioja - what'smore the contents can be enjoyed before, during, or after construction. Just a couple of turns around the pipe, spaced for width, then some solder applied to the turns as well as the twisted tail which is used to retain the pipe to the wall - all goes together very quickly.

Image attached shows downpipes (for an NBR building of all things) :
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Lindsay
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Hi Lindsay,

Many thanks for the further tips re the downspouts, I have quite a few sizes of brass and copper tubes and rodding, so have some experimenting to do. Is NB allowed on here?? :shock: Guilty too! as although this scene will be Caley through and through, stock will be in the latter days of BR steam up to green Class 40s and double-headed Class 50s, cut off point. Although Im sure I can find room for some of forthcoming Bachmann 3Fs and a Wemyss Bay tank. Or if anyone wishes to photograph/run some pregrouping , more than welcome when that time comes in a few years. From what Ive found out, the scene never really changed that much for very many many years until the demolition of the house in the late 1950s which dated to the opening of the line, and the dualling of the A74 in 1964/5. Things went downhill rapidly, no pun, and very sadly its virtually unrecognisable now.

Used to live in Carluke, high up about 1½ miles from the station. Vividly remember lying in bed at night in the loft, my room one side, model railway the other!! and hearing the thunderous roar of English Electric Type 4s, Class 40s, heading south on the real Long Drag, probably grossly overloaded and being thrashed to the max. It used to take about 10-15 mins from one coming into earshot up round the bends through the station and slowly fading away. A sound you never forget.

Its been a busy couple of weeks but I think Ive solved my own peculiar window and door requirements now, thanks to everyone for all the help, everything is "made" and just needs finally painting/assembly/touch up and fitting to the model. Downspouts next and were getting pretty close...

One technical problem I have is uploading photos due to size restrictions. Even set on Low res, my pics seem to be far too big, and I find I have to take at a distance and crop, hence the appalling quality of my uploads. Is there a secret??

Can soon upload a few shots of the windows and a couple of renumbered and weathered 40/50s and Fairburns. Ive also got, somewhere, some BW negs of Carluke station interior and the signal box. That would be great too.

TTFN P.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

WCML55.68 wrote:Hi Lindsay,

One technical problem I have is uploading photos due to size restrictions. Even set on Low res, my pics seem to be far too big, and I find I have to take at a distance and crop, hence the appalling quality of my uploads. Is there a secret??
If using Windows 10, open the picture in Microsoft Office Picture Manager. Click on the 'Picture' menu and select 'Resize'. A pane will open on the right. Click on the 'Predefined width and height' menu below that and select 'Document small (800 x 600 px)'. Click on the OK button and then from the 'File' menu (top left) 'Save as' with a new filename. this file will suit the forum.

HTH

Jim
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

jimwatt2mm wrote:
WCML55.68 wrote:Hi Lindsay,

One technical problem I have is uploading photos due to size restrictions. Even set on Low res, my pics seem to be far too big, and I find I have to take at a distance and crop, hence the appalling quality of my uploads. Is there a secret??
If using Windows 10, open the picture in Microsoft Office Picture Manager. Click on the 'Picture' menu and select 'Resize'. A pane will open on the right. Click on the 'Predefined width and height' menu below that and select 'Document small (800 x 600 px)'. Click on the OK button and then from the 'File' menu (top left) 'Save as' with a new filename. this file will suit the forum.

HTH

Jim
Jim, thank you so much! Will try to get the grey matter round this today! P.
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Confession time. Im afraid I have cheated, see if you can spot it...

Latest shot of the Harthope Staff Cottages, progressing well now. Much experimentation has been carried out windows wise and this is the result.

Ive decided to install LED lighting, and maybe even a smoke generator although the pots and stacks are solid, so a careful drill job maybe....... and have been busy with partitions and blanking off see through doors and walls! Used the smallest warm white versions of these, highly recommended. They dont get hot at all and are dimmable so any ambience can be achieved. This is a pre-partition shot. the burning question is how much furniture to install as the rooms look empty when lit up. Classic case of shooting oneself in the head, knees, feet and bxs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Model-Railwa ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/powerlead/m. ... pg=&_from=

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WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Good afternoon all,

Just been having a wee play today. Progress on the cottages has been a bit slow for a while but an initial diorama view will hopefully spur things on a little. First shot of the whole block of four. One point of discussion has been the colour of the paintwork. I had always assumed that the doors were faded Scottish Region blue but LMS buildings expert Peter Smith has suggested that the colour scheme is actually LMS brown (bargeboards and doorframes) cream for windowframes and green for the doors. So never repainted in BR days. The green fades to almost blue/grey so that is what they are. It looks right.

Theres still some work to do on the roof and still some detail work and a good weathering job. The block of two has several errors and a bad case of warpies and will be replaced shortly, built like a battleship employing lessons learnt with the block four.

Nobody yet has answered the question....why are the chimney pots arranged 1.3.3.4.1 ?? 🤪🤪

A couple of very significant photos have turned up recently. A back view (The only one so far!!) of the cottages, both blocks, taken from a railtour in the early 60s, and an excellent colour shot of a Fairburn banker just above the block 2 and part of block 4. Its taken full-on so theres no distortion from angle and perspective and is extremely interesting and reveals and confirms quite a few things. Theyre copyright so canny post.
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Paul.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

WCML55.68 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:43 pm
Nobody yet has answered the question....why are the chimney pots arranged 1.3.3.4.1 ?? 🤪🤪
I would guess that it is because of the arrangement of the rooms with fireplaces. The gable ends have one fireplace, the two right hand houses each have two rooms with fireplaces adjoining the party wall and the other two party walls have two rooms on one side and one room on the other. This would suggest that the three left hand houses were identical in layout with one room on the left side as you entered (living room/kitchen?) and two on the right (bedrooms?) and the right hand one was a mirror image of this. It may even have been that you entered straight into the living room with the bedrooms off that. Floor plans (if they exist) would confirm this.

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Hi Jim,

You are very close! The three houses left are similar layout, the one on the right is reversed. So the chimney pots are 1.2/1.2/1.2/2.1 so each 3 chimney stack has 1 pot from one house and 2 from nextdoor, the four stack is two from one house and 2 from nextdoor again.

It had me wondering until I located some plans.

Regards Paul.
Graham Tipple
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Graham Tipple »

Just because houses look the same on the outside, it would be a mistake to assume they are the same inside. I live in a row of Victorian terraces which all look the same at the front but are radically different inside, especially as they approach the corner and get narrower front to back.

Lovely models.

Graham
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Hello Graham,

Absolutely right, and in this case although 3 are supposedly identical bar the front gable and the 4th a mirror image, theres considerable differences in the measurements and positioning of windows etc. All faithfully produced. Its puzzled me somewhat as to why these were demolished c1965/6. No doubt because improvements and automation of track maintenance, less staff would be required but why not sell off the properties instead of demolishing them? From what Ive seen, they are extremely substantially built as would all Victorian era offerings. BR had planned to modernise them, they did some of the others at Beattock village. Seems a terrible waste.

Regards Paul.
dunalastairv
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by dunalastairv »

I'm afraid 'B.R.' and 'a terrible waste' were the order of the day all over Britain in the '60s and '70s. All too often, rather than make any effort to engage with interested parties, their answer was simply demolish and destroy. Look no further than the Waverley route...
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Yes Im afraid I feel a bit guilty building this in BR days but its what I grew up with, know and love. The Settle & Carlisle is also a classic one where the BR manager employed to oversee the rundown actually did engage and reversed the decision. BR is not all bad, many successes not least the huge number of people they employed, the countless works where our own trains were developed, built and even exported on occasion. So much is down to bad corrupt short sighted government.........
Bill_Gensheet
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

WCML55.68 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:23 pm
Its puzzled me somewhat as to why these were demolished c1965/6. No doubt because improvements and automation of track maintenance, less staff would be required but why not sell off the properties instead of demolishing them?
Clearance for road widening perhaps ?

Would the cottages would fit back today ? The road (long now a layby rather than the A74) looks straighter than on old mapping

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.39720 ... 56!5m1!1e1

https://maps.nls.uk/view/189662719

Bill
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