Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
dunalastairv
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by dunalastairv » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:48 pm

Hi Bill,

I've been to this location and there is no alteration to the site of the houses due to road alterations on the A74/B7076: indeed had they survived they would now have had their own quiet end of cul-de-sac. I think they were demolished because they became vacant as B.R. staffing changed, and being in need of modernisation, it was just easier to throw them away than be bothered with any further administration.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:02 am

Morning Bill,

No, the layby is the original A74, it was simply truncated. The new dual carriageway went straight through the viaduct and curved off much more gently. At one time, fairly recently, you could still see the old ribbed kerb stones and the drop kerb in front of the site of the cottages but I expect nature is fast encroaching, brambles were a big problem on last visit, we tried to find the underpass just to the north but couldnt get near. The site was very cramped and I always believed that the two story house was shoe-horned in to the available space which is why it didny face the line like all the others both CR and L&C, but maps show it was actually the first dwelling built here, around the time of the opening of the line. So the reason for the angle remains a mystery. The line is level with the chimneys on the cottages so its possible the CR felt no advantage in looking straight into an embankment.

The rear shot I have just acquired taken in 1963 shows one of the two cottage windows visible already boarded up, so it may be that they simply did not come up to standard and a decision was made to board up and then demolish when totally vacated, 1965/6, who knows?? But they were very substantially built and modernisation plans were drawn up but never implemented by BR. Private buyers could have though.

Regards Paul.

dunalastairv
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by dunalastairv » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm

Dear Paul,

I've just found a photograph of the cottages, good and sharp, but taken from the trackside further to the north, so showing them end on. This is E.R. Morton picture no. 1907, showing 'Wemyss Bay' tank, no. 55364 banking a goods on July 18th. 1951. Have you seen this? As well as the cottages, it shows the A74 as a single-track road, devoid of cars, and flanked by massive, double-post G.P.O. telegraph poles! I would have tried to upload it here but my skills don't go that far I'm afraid; however, I'm quite happy to send the picture to you for inspection if you would like. E-mail me directly for contact on [email protected] if you want to do this.

Kindest regards, Michael.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:47 pm

Hello Michael,

Many thanks for thinking of my project and getting in touch. All suggestions are very weclome!

Are there two very happy non-railway faces peering out of the brake van just in front of the banker? If so, it sounds like the same shot I already have, very clear shot of the platelayers hut too. And there is another shot of the same train, hauled by a WD 2-10-0 90764 on David Heys site. Link is best I can do.....it will be in Scottish.

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/

ER Morten only took 2 photos at that location as he was on his way further north, and I suspect it was a shot pre-arranged with the two riders. I also suspect that one of the two is Wilf Cooper who took this shot linked below, also in 1951. His grandson David runs this site.

http://www.cooperline.com/wd_details.asp?id=632

Will be in touch PM.

Regards Paul.

dunalastairv
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by dunalastairv » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:35 pm

Sadly, Paul, you're right! Two happy faces looking at the camera. I had hoped to find you something new!

Mike.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:11 pm

LOL! Thanks for trying !! I do have a new slide on the way though, from Africa of all places. Every shot adds another detail somewhere, and this is fairly close up and straight on. Canny wait.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:22 am

jimwatt2mm wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:11 pm
WCML55.68 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:43 pm
Nobody yet has answered the question....why are the chimney pots arranged 1.3.3.4.1 ?? 🤪🤪
I would guess that it is because of the arrangement of the rooms with fireplaces. The gable ends have one fireplace, the two right hand houses each have two rooms with fireplaces adjoining the party wall and the other two party walls have two rooms on one side and one room on the other. This would suggest that the three left hand houses were identical in layout with one room on the left side as you entered (living room/kitchen?) and two on the right (bedrooms?) and the right hand one was a mirror image of this. It may even have been that you entered straight into the living room with the bedrooms off that. Floor plans (if they exist) would confirm this.

Jim W
Hi Jim,

Theres one thing Im still curious about although of no consequence to the model. Each cottage has a single vented pot at one side and two octagonal ones at the other. The single stacks were the main room and kitchen fireplaces but why vented? To aid drafting maybe but why? Any ideas??

Thanks Paul.

JimG
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Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by JimG » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:10 am

WCML55.68 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:22 am
Theres one thing Im still curious about although of no consequence to the model. Each cottage has a single vented pot at one side and two octagonal ones at the other. The single stacks were the main room and kitchen fireplaces but why vented? To aid drafting maybe but why? Any ideas??
I can remember on very occasional days, with winds from a certain quarter, that our lums would blow back down with smoke everywhere inside the room. It could be that that was a regular occurence at the cottages and venting the chimneys of the fires which were regularly used would be necessary.

JimG.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:48 am

JimG wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:10 am
WCML55.68 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:22 am
Theres one thing Im still curious about although of no consequence to the model. Each cottage has a single vented pot at one side and two octagonal ones at the other. The single stacks were the main room and kitchen fireplaces but why vented? To aid drafting maybe but why? Any ideas??
I can remember on very occasional days, with winds from a certain quarter, that our lums would blow back down with smoke everywhere inside the room. It could be that that was a regular occurence at the cottages and venting the chimneys of the fires which were regularly used would be necessary.

JimG.
Morning Jim,

That certainly sounds feasible, although I would have thought that if a problem, all the pots would be vented. The two normal ones are bedrooms so equally necessary. I canny see it being cost either, the Caley didnt spare where buildings were concerned and these were no exception.

One things for sure, the weather at Beattock bank was nearly always inclement, wind and rain.!!

Regards Paul.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:20 pm

Aaaaarrrgggghhhhhhhh..........

Ive just acquired an absolutely cracking broadside shot of a Fairburn tank banking a parcels train immediately behind the Harthope cottages. From South Africa of all places. Theres a terrific amount of info, both new and in confirmation, within this slide and being in colour...................now you may remember a post of mine a while ago regarding the colour of the paintwork, windows and doors. Being modelled in BR days led me to one Peter Smith, LMS buildings expert, and we concluded from what sparse info we had that the cottages still retained their LMS paintwork, cream windows, LMS brown bargeboards and doorframes, and LMS green doors, faded to blue as is wont.

I'm not going to reproduce the slide just yet, but a small section, the middens beside the cottages, is posted below. Just confirmation of the colours of the doors...NOT"!!!!

I dont think I'm allowed to reproduce the exact words used. 🤪

Paul.


97 MIDDENS.jpg
97 MIDDENS.jpg (82.91 KiB) Viewed 4809 times
Last edited by WCML55.68 on Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ian Smeeton
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by Ian Smeeton » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:49 pm

A tantalising glimpse of the cottages on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kxiN5gBKrQ

at about 5:40

Regards

Ian

dunalastairv
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by dunalastairv » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 pm

I'm fascinated by the different colours on the four doors of the middens: are we to assume each cottage had a different colour to ensure the tenants knew which was theirs? And did these different colours apply to the doors of each cottage as well? You would never have guessed about polychromatic midden doors without a colour slide!

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:43 am

Ian Smeeton wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:49 pm
A tantalising glimpse of the cottages on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kxiN5gBKrQ

at about 5:40

Regards

Ian
Hello Ian,

Thanks for the link, a new one to me. I wonder if its available on DVD? But fancy cutting the film off there! Maybe its been edited, research needed!

Many thanks Paul.

WCML55.68
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway staff cottages, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:05 am

dunalastairv wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 pm
I'm fascinated by the different colours on the four doors of the middens: are we to assume each cottage had a different colour to ensure the tenants knew which was theirs? And did these different colours apply to the doors of each cottage as well? You would never have guessed about polychromatic midden doors without a colour slide!
Morning,

There is a similar colour shot on ColourRail, which is well worth the download fee, its a bit murky in that corner but does hint also at the different coloured midden doors. It also clearly shows the house numbers on cottage doors, and also a possible colour differential which I suspect is either excessive fading in some cases or possibly a combo of ScR blue and faded LMS green. So a complete mystery. Close scrutiny of the midden doors shot reveals a mark on the blue door in the right place which might suggest a number?? But I expect that the explanation is more than likely some doors have really faded or been repainted and possibly a new door on the left.

Regards Paul.

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