Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Gosh Jim, thats a fabulous row, even more so considering the scale. A lot of work there, is it based on a particular prototype and what is the wee building on the left? The tracks will run in the foreground in a cutting? Those windows are really great, thanks for the contact info. Still going down the plasticard route for now, theres another pair well on the way today. Im fairly happy here with the result so far, the finished frames are amazingly robust, the only doubt is the thickness of the window spars. They measure up at .65mm which makes them around 2", I feel thats about right. They look fine by the eye but the camera is very cruel. And of course being totally scratchbuilt, they dont actually cost very much. A true Scot to the end ......🤪
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Thanks, Paul. The block is loosely based on this row here in Biggar.
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I stress 'loosely' as the slope on the layout is steeper and so I had to 'step down' the RH section. The tracks in front of the retaining wall are the goods yard, the (imagined) station being out of sight behind the buildings in a cutting, with the wee building on the left being the station building, this time loosely based on that at Stra'ven.

More details on the build of both on my RMWeb thread starting here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... 47009_menu .

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Instantly recognisable Jim, did you take any measurements, work off head on photos?? Whatever youve done a cracking job and I really appreciate how much work is involved. What never ceases to amaze me is the different sizes of the actually buildings, demonstrated by the left hand of the terraced houses.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

To be honest, Paul, I measured the quoins and did the rest by estimating off a couple of photos I took from directly opposite until it looked right and fitted where it had to go on the layout.

I suspect the left hand part is an earlier building as it is built in the local reddish, random stone, with sandstone quoins, common in the town, whereas the other part is in smooth blonde sandstone.

The LH end of the block appears a photograph taken on coronation day in 1911 which shows the LH half of the block and the window bars are exactly the same! Recently the house at the very left has had its windows replaced with single pane sashes.

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

LOLOL exactly as I did at Auchencastle, the majority were the same. I was very fortunate there as the owner is an enthusiast and gave us a free run, and the original window frames had mostly just been replaced but were still present on the ground. It was imperative to draw plans up though but there were still anomalies, but I think everything on the dwelling house looks OK now. I will be posting a couple of photos shortly!!

I think buildings have generally increased in size as people and wealth have done until fairly recent times when houses are getting tiny again for all sorts of reasons.
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Bay window frames done. All entirely from plasticard and Evergreen. just a little cleaning up needed, glazing to be cut and fitted after painting. Upstairs on the top row, note the notches to show the top of the frames act as numbers, they canny rub off like pencil, and the cropped corners are to clear internal wall bracing. The camera is very cruel and it makes those spars look rather thick, but in situ they look fine.

Have to give the eyes a rest now, this has been extremely demanding on them despite raised workbench and good lighting, getting to the stage this avo when eyes wouldny focus sometimes. But hopefully worth the effort.

Might stop that armchair trying to float away tonight....


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jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Very nice, Paul. Great work as always.

Jim W
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Thanks Jim.

Its been quite hard on the eyes such close work over a protracted time, and one large frame has warped slightly, may have been over-generous with the Plasweld. Weights over both ends and a central bolster to reverse the warp hasnt been successful and I dont fancy warm water treatment. Will see if I can file the locating frame away and replace, if it cant be salvaged I will make another one!

This method seems to have been fairly successful and I will make the rear and side windows similarly. Hopefully over the weekend. I will be much happier once they are finished and secured in position.

Another chapter for Working with Plasticard.

P
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Evening all,

Just a wee progress report. All doors and windows finished, only the bays (right on the photo) were made as per previous posts, all the back and side windows were made by tweeking Wills SS42 to vary height and width. The bay windows at Auchencastle originally had 3 pane wide sashes, but the only photo of Harthope shows 2 panes wide at the front in 1951 and 3 panes at rear until demolished. Whether built like that or altered is unknown.

Tried lighting one of the row of cottages and it made the room look so empty so have produced some interior fittings for all rooms on this house, very basic but the rooms dont look empty now and 3 or 4 pieces in an evening, feel fully justified now as these really show up when the lights are on. Wiring will be finished tomorrow.

Still got to decide on method of attachment for the drainpipes, made some using 1mm Evergreen rodding and double 10th rodding tied around to represent joints. Needed 5 hands for that! Jig made. But I dont think the wire ties from behind previously suggested will be possible, access very limited. So practise on scrap next week too. Apart from that, very close to final assembly, everything else ready to go in.😊😊


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lindsay_g
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by lindsay_g »

That would all seem to be coming along nicely. Does the grandfather clock tick?

Regarding downpipes, what about trying tube or wire with fine wire (from Rioja wine bottles) run round twice to represent joints? The tails on the wire twisted together and soldered can then be used to secure them to the building. If straight pipes are required then fine tube is better at remaining straight, but if angled joints at the gutter are required then copper wire from 1.5mm or 2.5mm electrical cable is perfect depending on diameter needed. Here's one of the downpipes attached to Burntisland's roundhouse during construction (apologies for an NBR example - I couldn't find a better one from Barnton!).

Lindsay
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jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

That's exactly the same technique as i use in 2mm scale. See here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... 64265_menu near the foot of the page.

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Many thanks for the great advice, as always. Allan K also suggested a similar method on CR Cottagers. All impressive work.

Problem Ive got is everything on the building is plasticard orientated and it makes sense to use similar, certainly for the gutters, especially as parts of the wall behind the gutters are very slender. Also theres very limited room or access at the back to secure the twisted wire retainers unless I can make them a tight fit in predrilled holes.

Another problem is that the main and extensions roofs really need to go in before the gutters or its going to be nigh impossible to run Mekpak along the base of the roofs. So access inside will be no more. Possibility to drill a row of tiny holes through the roof to allow drops of Mekpak and fill/touch up after. So unless I install the downpipes first and the gutters after the roofs ........still thinking about all this.

I used prepainted Plastruct 90531 channel section on the cottages, gently rounded at the front but leaving the rear square for maximum adhesion but have not yet installed any downpipes.

Ive had a little play with scrap for the downpipes, using exactly the same method as suggested but Evergreen plastic rodding 1mm and Plasticard 10thou rodding for the pipes and joints. The pipes form angles and elbows readily but about a 50% success rate with the joints but getting better. The 10th tends to break when pulled tight when the Mek is applied. The big advantage is that pipes will locate in a 1mm hole drilled in the gutter and Mekpakd in. Its very strong. I will also try using thin wire pulled tight and Mekpakd, might be more difficult to trim but once sealed with paint should be sound. Or fabricate the pipes from section with pasticard "washers" to represent the rings, same as the chimney pots. Hmmm.

Ive also tried butt jointing two 1mm round sections with one gently hollowed to fit the round of the other. End result is very strong so my thinking is to locate downpipe in gutter, maybe even butt joint, and two horizontal 1mm sections in the wall at midway and the base and Mekpak downpipes to these. The result will be very strong, as long as no Mekpak goes astray.......



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ay with scrap pieces,
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I drill small holes for the wire and apply a spot of cyano to the ends of the twisted wires before pushing them into the holes. It helps if you flood them with solder first to prevent the ends separating when you push them in, but then you can't do that with styrene.

Jim W
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

That sounds good Jim, I will give that a try on some scrap. I think the wire might be a better option.
Alan K
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Coming along well Paul.
Re your problem with the 10 thou rod coming apart when applying MEK, there's a less fierce solvent called Limonene which might help. When set it's just as strong, but it gives more 'adjustment time'. It's also said to have a less fogging effect on clear styrene.

Alan
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Thanks Alan, thats one Ive not heard of before, bottle ordered! I bought a bottle MEK last year which again shows different characteristics to Plasweld and Mekpak which has worked best for the 10th but it smells awful and I suspect if inhaled too much, one would end up on the third moon of planet Zog. Theres no warning for this on the label, only eye irritation. As with all chemicals, care at all times.
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I now use DL-Limonene exclusively. Because it is less aggressive, I find I need to apply some to both mating surfaces, wait a few seconds, then apply a second coat to one surface before bringing them together. It has a slightly 'citrous' smell, but I would still use it in a well ventilated space. The only warnings on it are 'flammable' , 'irritating to the skin', 'harmful to the environment' and 'very toxic to aquatic animals'. Keep it well out of the reach of your goldfish! :lol:

Jim W
Jim Summers
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Jim Summers »

True or not, I seem to remember Andrew Hartshorne of Wizard/51L telling me that he added orange peel when making Di-Limonene to get the more agreeable smell. He was originally a chemist.

JimS
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

lindsay_g wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:01 am
That would all seem to be coming along nicely. Does the grandfather clock tick?

Regarding downpipes, what about trying tube or wire with fine wire (from Rioja wine bottles) run round twice to represent joints? The tails on the wire twisted together and soldered can then be used to secure them to the building. If straight pipes are required then fine tube is better at remaining straight, but if angled joints at the gutter are required then copper wire from 1.5mm or 2.5mm electrical cable is perfect depending on diameter needed. Here's one of the downpipes attached to Burntisland's roundhouse during construction (apologies for an NBR example - I couldn't find a better one from Barnton!).

Lindsay

Downpipe.jpg
LOLOL I had wound up!! one of my colleagues regarding a wee mechanism to make it work!
What have you used for the lattice windows? It looks fantastic.
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

jimwatt2mm wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:53 pm
I now use DL-Limonene exclusively. Because it is less aggressive, I find I need to apply some to both mating surfaces, wait a few seconds, then apply a second coat to one surface before bringing them together. It has a slightly 'citrous' smell, but I would still use it in a well ventilated space. The only warnings on it are 'flammable' , 'irritating to the skin', 'harmful to the environment' and 'very toxic to aquatic animals'. Keep it well out of the reach of your goldfish! :lol:

Jim W
Many thanks for the great advice as always, Jim. Much appreciated.

Still awaiting supplies to arrive. We have no model shops near, even if travel was possible. No goldfish in house, only in the pond. Have you ever tried Heron curry?
Last edited by WCML55.68 on Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
lindsay_g
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by lindsay_g »

WCML55.68 wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:37 pm
What have you used for the lattice windows?
The frames are made from plasticard cut on the Silhouette cutter, and the leaded glass from fine metal mesh (from eBay, akin to the material that we used to reinforce fibreglass resin whilst covering rusted holes in the family saloon) which was sanded flat and then filled with glue 'n glaze. The odd panes were missed (in error) but they looked as if the glass had fallen out so were left like that. Part of the build of the Roundhouse appeared in the last edition (281) of Model Railway Journal and hopefully will be concluded in a future edition where details such as the windows and vents (completed with an etch provided by a certain other CRA gent) will be covered.

Lindsay
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Very effective, nice job. Silhouette cutter is one of those things on the wants list but I tend to do things the hard way. If a really large quantity of something was required then maybe. Closest Ive got is an NWSL Chopper 2 and various homemade jigs.

P.
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Kitchens fitted out with what is going in, must have been asleep when fitting that partition! It wont show.
All the LEDs now have diffusers, even on 4.2v they were far too bright and also tended to shine through some walls and partitions. Might give a lesser voltage adaptor a try. D-sub-miniature connector fitted in the non-viewing side and wont be seen.

Still got the downpipes to finish, but still no D-Limonene.
Final assembly is hopefully taking place this weekend although I would have liked to try D-Limonene for tacking in the roof slates too.


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WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Afternoon all,

Darned plasticard. Its biggest failing is it being proned to warping. Laminated built like a battleship walls are not totally immune, both rear upstairs window apexes have warped outwards slightly, not sure exactly why but discovered when making a start to fitting roof.

Originally the walls were laminated to correct thickness and left to dry overnight, flat under pressure. So whether it was the application of quoinstones, stone infill at top or the fitting of the windows or a combination is unknown, the latter is suspect, but a dry run with pre-made rooftile assemblies revealed gaps and a check with L-square and steel rule confirmed 1mm and ½mm movement respectively.

The laminated walls with stone overlay are some 4mm thick as per prototype. The subroof is in exactly the right place and if it wasnt already Mekpakd in, I think I would have run a Dremmel grinding stone to make an unseen groove across the rear of the walls either side base of the windows to relieve tension and amount of pressure required to gain vertical again, not possible and maybe just as well, dust!!!!! so only other option without major surgery was to clamp and glue, and pray.

Not possible to clamp over whole building as the apex tops are much higher than the walls at the front, so a jig was made to fit over the the top of the main subroof to strengthen, spread the load and avoid any distortion and make a vertical surface for the clamp. Normal G-clamps no use but I have a couple of U-clamps where one leg is ½-" longer than the other, turned out to be perfect for the job. So a piece of packing across the window apex wall to avoid damage, clamp up and apply Mekpak and leave overnight, 12 hours. Fingers crossed. Released this morning and after a couple of hours it hasnt gone ping so looking good. Second one tonight. :) :)

Still no Limonene, seems very hard to find and can be extortionately expensive, I read one report of a small bottle of water being supplied, but I bought a bottle of MEK a while back through our friends as an alternative to Mekpak which is getting dear.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEK-METHYL-E ... SwBTpgLMhn

Smells awful and maybe not as strong as Mekpak but doesnt seem to show the same propensity to evaporate as quickly as Mekpak and Ive found it can be applied to surfaces before assembly and a reasonable bond is formed. For the slate overlays, I will use this method but will also pre-drill a series of around a dozen tiny holes on the two main sheets, strategically placed to allow a drop of MEK in each to doubly ensure good bonding. Easy enough to apply a little filler and paint touch up after.

Not far off.

P.
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