Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Hello Alan,

Thanks for your reply. I would love some photos of the plans if that is indeed possible, will PM you.

Yes, theres two extant at Kirkpatrick Fleming, must change that photo title, one near the Crossing Keepers cottage, and another other side of the line just beyond the M74 but this has been drastically extended. Up for sale! Would these be for particular stretches of line, one west and the other east? Both these are similar materials, but very different from those at Beattock bank. Theres another extant near Auchencastle just north of Beattock village which I think is very similar, but definitely not identical to, that beside Harthope Viaduct. But the latter was demolished c1957-60. You mention Coatsgate, there is a Coatsgate Layby beside Harthope which is actually the old A74 on which the cottages were located, is there yet another undiscovered?? or are you referring to Harthope?

Its very interesting that these seem to be referred to platelayers cottages, Ive always struggled to understand why these 2-storey houses, B and AC seem to date to the opening of the line but havent researched the KFs yet, seem to have been quite comprehensively constructed with toilets on the rear. Whereas the single storey Cottages appear to be much lesser accommodation, relatively tiny. Why the difference? Different grades of employees?
The plans I have refer to the single storys as "Harthope Viaduct Houses (6) - Proposed Bathrooms and Sculleries". Presumably they had no toilets, or what they did have were in need of upgrade. Harthope were never done, but at least some of those at Beattock village were. This is where Ive fallen foul, as photos of Harthope cottages are incredibly rare, and the plans actually show was intended, not what was there before. The plans show rear doors block of four, but they were intended, not there before! No photos at the time, model wrong. In addition, the S African slide clearly shows that the windows on the block of two are quite narrow. The plans show enlargement of the windows!
This was the first to be constructed and has succumbed to warping and is scheduled for replacement anyway, so the mark 2 will be more accurate.

Next time up, will have a look at the Crossing Keepers cottages too. Meanwhile fascinated to see what your plans reveal.
Regards Paul.
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Ive just had a wee look at the NLS map for Kirkpatrick Fleming dated 1858. Both CR houses are clearly shown, the one beside the (now) M74 shows the toilet block on rear, the one beside the LC does not, and neither shows the staircase "extensions" which again suggest to me that these maps cannot be totally relied upon for actual measurements or shape of buildings etc
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

The dreaded bay window ROOFS.

Post by WCML55.68 »

Good evening all,

I hope everyone is managing to stay safe and well.

Its a couple of months since my last post, partly because of running into the buffer stops with the Bay Window roofs, I always find leaving a problem and coming back later works well, and partly because of this evil 2 month spell of glorious sunny weather during lockdown. Tempted into the garden and rather got the bug for it. Nearly everything done now, and its only May. Never before. I had tidied up the workbench last week, and a chance comment from Jim S gave me the necessary last nudge.

The two bay window roofs. No measurements. No decent photos. But several parameters. They have to be as identical as possible. Same height, same width, same depth, same angles, ridges level, same height, parallel to each other, and at right angles to the main roof, gutters level and parallel to window tops. And the measurements for all the underpinnings had to be reduced to allow for the thickness of the slate sheeting. And where do the sides stop and the two panels forming the pointy bits start? A multitude of angles and facets and no measurements, and each facet has to have the right angles too whilst maintaining straight rows of slates. And then it has to compare to photos. And I thought the actual bay windows were going to be hard.

Sub roofs, necessary so that the flashing which is under the tiles in the valleys can be installed, were fashioned for the sides and very lightly tacked in, any discrepancies soon surface and any adjustments must be made at this stage. It became apparent that the right hand ridge was nearly 1mm higher. Doesnt sound much but enough to knock all the other measurements and identical-ness out. That sorted, 4 pieces of slate overlay were fashioned and taped on, then a card jig cut to ensure everything measures up and looks right. Fairly happy so the side sub roofs were properly Mek-pakd in and the lead flashing fitted too. Easier to trim this to length in situ after drying time. Slightly thinner than the slate sheeting to give the impression of scale thickness to the slates. Then the main slate covering was trimmed exactly now, to fit around the flashing. Sides trimmed and a dry run. Modellers steel rule placed over the apexes and a small spirit level thereon, ruler didnt rock and bubble in the middle, both ways! Photos - camera in slightly different position falsely shows irregularity with the card jig. (emphasises previous comments about perspective /photos/measurements.

Chimney stack, slightly trimmed at the base to reduce height to correct level, it took a long time to get this just right, and totally erect using a 5" set square at ground level. Only get one chance, at this time. No corrections afterwards. Sub roofs trimmed to fit around the stack, but slates cannot be until all is assembled and flashing fitted, under the tiles at the sides of the stack, over the top front and back.

Interior walls now installed and a little painting last week just to see. The stone grey is a good match to the photos, but the overall look in situ is too dark, and too similar to the roof, which yet has to receive some purply-grey slate colour. But the stonework might be lightened with some white powders rubbed into the mortar joins. I vividly remember the Art teacher at school, many years ago! during the architecture side of things showing a slide of a brick wall. Divided invisibly into a noughts and crosses board, each section was pointed with a different colour, but the bricks were all the same colour. The effect was amazing, each section looking totally different, so we will see what happens with white/pale grey mortar.

The masking tape is just to protect the corners.

Has anyone used weathering powders?? Any advice??

Lighting next, which again raises the question, how much if any interior?

P
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Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Looking good Paul. You've clearly cracked the problem with the bay windows.
For what it's worth to my eye the blue-grey stonework isn't matte enough, whereas the sandstone quoins are and look much the better for it. If it was me, I'd try experimenting with 'dry brushing' the stonework with a very slightly lighter colour to try and coax a bit more texture out. It needs to be done with very little paint on the brush to get really subtle effects. I'd be concerned that if you can't make out the mortar joints in your photos as a clear separate shade then adding white powders might be too much of a contrast.
You can get a good matte finish with the likes of Testors Dullcote aerosol afterwards.

Alan
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Morning Alan,

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I thought I had cracked it too! Spent all day yesterday, BH Monday, fashioning the two front panels for each bay roof and filing, adjusting and tweaking to get a good fit with equal overhangs all round and angles lining up where necessary. One pair was eventually discarded and replaced. Quite a lot of filing to reduce the height/profile of parts of the bay sub roofs and thickness of tiles was undertaken. The slightest discrepancy has a domino effect on the other parts. The angle of the bays ridge has been reduced very slightly, its possible that this is mathematically related to proportions of the front panels, but beyond my knowledge. However all measures up today with ruler, spirit level and visual checks. Fairly happy now, and no one who sees this at exhibition will imagine the blood sweat, tears and new swear words invented during construction of this one part. Still to apply the lead flashing on top of the ridge and 3 front angles, but cannot do this until finally affixed to the main building to align all up. There will be room for minor adjustment when applying this flashing, and the guttering too. The main subroof, bay subroofs being integral with this, and main slates have to go in first, the bay roofs second as they overhang at the sides and prevent the main roof going in second. So cant complete the bays yet. Windows lighting and interior prep still await.

The slight sheen on the grey gloss is certainly emphasised on the photo. Im using ModelAir, ModelColour and Citadel acrylics. I particularly like the Citadel, get mine from Warhammer, as the pots are virtually unknockableover, do have a paint stand, and have a flip lid which has a tongue laden with paint. You can visibly dip the brush into this tongue for the correct amount of paint. Despite the huge range of acrylics, Ive yet to find a good match for red sandstone and mix my own. The whole will be applied with matt varnish so should sort that problem. I think some experimenting with colours and applying paint and/or weathering powders to the mortar joints on scrap pieces of stone first. Also the photo emphasises that some parts of the stone infill needs further reduction in thickness with course wet and dry, it does vary. The mortar joints are quite distinct here, but no guarantees that Harthope was the same, and this is a heavily forrested area which again will alter the weathering!

P.

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WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Alan K wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:14 am
Looking good Paul. You've clearly cracked the problem with the bay windows.
For what it's worth to my eye the blue-grey stonework isn't matte enough, whereas the sandstone quoins are and look much the better for it. If it was me, I'd try experimenting with 'dry brushing' the stonework with a very slightly lighter colour to try and coax a bit more texture out. It needs to be done with very little paint on the brush to get really subtle effects. I'd be concerned that if you can't make out the mortar joints in your photos as a clear separate shade then adding white powders might be too much of a contrast.
You can get a good matte finish with the likes of Testors Dullcote aerosol afterwards.

Alan
Hello Alan,

Had a wee try with a fine sable brush and picking out the mortar joints with an off-white acrylic. The base grey is ModelAir 71.097 and has good adhesion and resistance to rubbing. Sounds very laborious but just a section at a time and use a dampened finger or hanky to remove any excess. About 30 minutes.

The grey base is exactly the same on all three sections, its the mortar which lightens the overall appearance, witness earlier post about the 9 section brick wall in Art Class.

Also a selection of very rudimentary furniture to avoid the rooms looking empty when any LED lighting is on.

We are getting close to final assembly .....


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Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Hi Paul

I think that looks pretty good! If you compare that part with the orginal you can see that it's worth the effort. I'd still recommend that you investigate dry brushing (I'm sure there'll be someone on youtube who'll show how it's done) Very crudely you put paint on the brush and then wipe almost all of it off on a paper towel and then gently brush over your surface. You only get tiny amounts sticking to the surface but it really brings out the texture. The guys who do military modelling are the masters for these techniques!

Alan
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Alan K wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:02 pm
Hi Paul

I think that looks pretty good! If you compare that part with the orginal you can see that it's worth the effort. I'd still recommend that you investigate dry brushing (I'm sure there'll be someone on youtube who'll show how it's done) Very crudely you put paint on the brush and then wipe almost all of it off on a paper towel and then gently brush over your surface. You only get tiny amounts sticking to the surface but it really brings out the texture. The guys who do military modelling are the masters for these techniques!

Alan
Hello Alan,

Thanks for the thumbs up, Im fairly happy too with the result of the sable and wipe technique, matches the prototype pictures, both 1951 and current, very well, fairly quick and easy and also lightens that base grey a little. So completed all the bits end of last week, and this weekend have produced 8 chimney pots. I will do a post about both of those next week. Not all chimney pots absolutely identical, but neither were the originals!

Just the window frames, doors, basic downstairs furniture, lighting and a couple of other wee bits to do. Then the red sandstone to paint and final assembly. I think Im going to undercoat the red with that base grey, its very good adhesion and rub resistant. But got a problem. Last thing to go on should be the roof slates followed by the bay and dormer window roofs. But cannot reach the glue holes from behind once assembled ...... my thinking is either to drill a series of carefully positioned holes through individual slates, Mekpak from the top and fill the holes after or possibly cut out the bedroom floors again! to gain access and remount them after, the furniture will be Mekpakd to the walls, not the floor. Thought needed. Originally intends to fit the bay roofs first, but I cannot fit the main sheets of slates after, the chimney stack stops then sliding in under the overhang. Some though needed.

The photo of the pots is cruelly exposing, and the pointed stone inserts in the house and bay roofs are not pushed and glued home, never get them out again, hence a few gaps. Notice also the coped gable on the right, as per Harthope prototype, is considerably higher than the other which I think was probably reduced in height, all CR houses appear to have the raise gables. Also the bay window roof lead flashing dont look parallel, they are, trick of perspective, again confirming photos cannot be relied upon for measurements unless taken level and full-on.

P


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Jim Summers
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Jim Summers »

That's really coming to life in the late sunshine, Paul.

JimS
WCML55.68
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Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Thanks Jim, its actually against a photo on PC screen!, anglepoise for illumination!

Got some hard work to do now on the window frames, so will refrain painting the red sandstone until most of the handling is done.

P.
Last edited by WCML55.68 on Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by Alan K »

Hi Paul
What are you going to use for flashing? I found aluminium foil to be quite good: it's very thin and is dead soft so can take up the line of the roof quite nicely. Sometimes the apex over the ridges are formed in a round profile, which foil works well to reproduce. Also can be delicately indented to represent the joints between the sections. It's the devil to paint though. One of those special primers might work eg the self etching ones

Alan
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Does anyone know what the appearance of the front and back doors for this dwelling house are likely to be? Was there a CR standard? Bearing in mind the house dates back to c1848.

The later cottages had no back doors at all, and the front were a pair of plain planked, double hinged ½-doors, what I would call storm doors. My suspicions is that the back doors would be plain planked, but not sure whether the front would be storm doors, or perhaps a full sized single door, perhaps with a small square or diamond window.

The windows Ive got thanks, just the doors.

Any ideas?

Thnaks P.
WCML55.68
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Caledonian Railway Dwelling House, Harthope

Post by WCML55.68 »

Alan K wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:48 pm
Hi Paul
What are you going to use for flashing? I found aluminium foil to be quite good: it's very thin and is dead soft so can take up the line of the roof quite nicely. Sometimes the apex over the ridges are formed in a round profile, which foil works well to reproduce. Also can be delicately indented to represent the joints between the sections. It's the devil to paint though. One of those special primers might work eg the self etching ones

Alan
Hi Alan,

The flashing for the valleys is already in, evergreen strip slightly thinner than the sheets of tiles, with aluminium or silver paint applied. Looks OK on the cottages. Once all the slates are Mekpakd in, I use two strips of 10thou evergreen strip lightly Mekpakd on top of the slates for each ridge, and a length of plastic rodding in the top V which they create. Again silver paint. With some careful handling. it tones down beautifully.

p.
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