And where might this be?

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
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Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

And where might this be?

Post by Jim Summers »

I attach a picture by Jim Stevenson, said to be of a train at Strathord, but doubts have been raised.
Can anyone substantiate or disprove Strathord and in that case offer an alternative, please?

JimS
Allegedly - Strathord - 15209 on a Bankfoot branch train - probably 1930 or 1931 - JL Stevenson.jpg
Allegedly - Strathord - 15209 on a Bankfoot branch train - probably 1930 or 1931 - JL Stevenson.jpg (67.63 KiB) Viewed 738 times
dunalastairv
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: And where might this be?

Post by dunalastairv »

Well, I can state quite categorically that this isn't Strathord: the layout and buildings are nothing like those seen in other photographs - Railscot for example - and Strathord also didn't have a tripod crane, which is what I presume is visible, lower right. However, where it is I don't know - it has the look of the St. Combs branch but that can't be right either. By the way, I know the Caley name wasn't 'tripod crane' but I simply cannot remember the proper term as I sit writing this - a more and more frequent occurrence unfortunately!
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I think 'Scotch Derrick' is the name you're looking for! :)

Jim W

PS. No idea where the photo is! :?
dunalastairv
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: And where might this be?

Post by dunalastairv »

Scotch derrick it certainly is - thank you!
Niall Ferguson
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:23 am

Re: And where might this be?

Post by Niall Ferguson »

It isn't Gagie on the Dundee to Forfar Direct line, which was my initial thought as a possibility, and it doesn't appear to be anywhere on the Carmyllie branch.
Niall
John Paton
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by John Paton »

Niall,

Are you sure that it isn't Gagie? The platform building is different to those featured in the photos in your A&FR book, but these photos were taken in the 1950s rather that CR days in the case of the mystery photo. The old coach body could have been replaced by the two small shelters in the later photos.

Other than the building, the structure of the platform is not dis-similar, as is the gentle curve of the running line, the position of the goods yard (itself an unusual feature at a small halt), and the slight drop of ground levels to the right of the photo. The 1921 25" OS (uploaded) shows a crane behind the platform. Though maybe the wood to the west of the line shown on the is a problem.

Otherwise it might be one of the small halts all over the network that we have never been able to find a photo of. I'll need to give more thought.

John
Attachments
Gagie.jpg
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dunalastairv
Posts: 262
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Re: And where might this be?

Post by dunalastairv »

The wood might not be a problem: I assume the map is pre-WWI, while the picture is in LMS days, stated as 1929 or 30. Those woods could have been removed as part of the War effort - a common enough occurrence.
John Duffy
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Re: And where might this be?

Post by John Duffy »

Gagie was my first thought. Clearly with different structures from (I think) the 1961 Transport Treasury pictures but this picture must have been taken many years earlier. Might it have recorded the halt shortly after opening in 1936?
Niall Ferguson
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:23 am

Re: And where might this be?

Post by Niall Ferguson »

Gagie opened in 1935. I appreciate that the pre-1928 livery on the locomotive doesn't preclude it being there after 1935 but, apart from the two huts and no grounded body, or sign of a Scotch derrick, there are another set of differences. I accept the fact that both sets of railings have four horizontal rails, but the JLS image shows a filled ramp to the platform, whilst my images (as below, and I have obtained a few more since writing the book) show wooden ramps at each end and a totally open support framework below the platform (although it does appear from the JLS image that the body of the platform may have space below it). Also there are four uprights spanning the ramp from ground level to platform height on the JLS image and no intermediate supports on my images. Also I see no sign of any telegraph poles or wires in the JLS photo (although they may just be out of shot). My photo No.4 (looking towards the connection for the siding) seems to show an ordinary yard crane behind the platform - not the Scotch Derrick. On balance of probabilities (particular the differences taking into account the changes possible in such a short time frame) I think it is extremely unlikely to be Gagie
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Gagie 04.jpg
Gagie 04.jpg (89.79 KiB) Viewed 652 times
Gagie 03.jpg
Gagie 03.jpg (78.3 KiB) Viewed 652 times
Gagie 02.jpg
Gagie 02.jpg (62.63 KiB) Viewed 652 times
Gagie 01 upload.jpg
Gagie 01 upload.jpg (81.42 KiB) Viewed 652 times
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Another factor concerning the date of this photo is the carriage livery. The rear one is definitely in CR colours and I think that the front one is too, but dirtier. Counting the lamp tops of the second vehicle suggests an 8-compartment 3rd. Can you confirm that Niall off the original photo? The front carriage is the one with the brake compartment, which suggests to me that the normal service was the one brake carriage with the one behind as an occasional strengthener. If someone has an early LMS carriage marshalling circular, this might help in narrowing down the search.

Best

Mike
Gary1967
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:27 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by Gary1967 »

Anyone know which shed 15209 was allocated to?
David Blevins
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by David Blevins »

I have notes on Shed allocations and 15209 was at Perth in 1921, 1931 and 1947.
It might help you to narrow it down to a place in Perthshire, maybe.
There is a photograph of 15209 at Crieff Station in the CRA Photo Archive, so it will have worked that line from Perth to Crieff, are we narrowing it down still further or not ????
David Blevins.
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: And where might this be?

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

The only picture in the SLS catalogue has 15209 at Bankfoot with two ex CR 45ft carriages in LMS livery.

Best

Mike
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