Dalmally Station

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
David Elvy
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Dalmally Station

Post by David Elvy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:06 pm

A couple of us have started the research stage of a project to extend an existing layout and build a model of Dalmally station, the track layout will be as it was as a through station in the 1920's.
We are trying to minimise the use of modellers license but, the maximum platform length looks like it need to be restricted to a Class 66 + 3 x 57ft coaches and the approaches will need to be curved.

The reason for the message to the forum is that I wish to appeal to anyone who might have any information that could help with researching this project, work isn’t likely to start in earnest until later next year but if anyone has any info at all that could help it would be appreciated, thanks.


David

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:01 pm

elvan4472 wrote:A couple of us have started the research stage of a project to extend an existing layout and build a model of Dalmally station, the track layout will be as it was as a through station in the 1920's.
We are trying to minimise the use of modellers license but, the maximum platform length looks like it need to be restricted to a Class 66 + 3 x 57ft coaches and the approaches will need to be curved.

The reason for the message to the forum is that I wish to appeal to anyone who might have any information that could help with researching this project, work isn’t likely to start in earnest until later next year but if anyone has any info at all that could help it would be appreciated, thanks.
David,

I surveyed the station in the mid 1960s when I was thinking about building a layout based on it. As far as I can remember the station and signal box on the platform hadn't changed a bit from Caledonian days, but the engine shed building was derelict. I've got negatives somewhere which I took at the time and I'll see if I can find them. Don't hold your breath since I haven't laid my hands on them for years. ;)

I remember the stationmaster being very friendly and helpful and giving me a lot of the history of the station as he knew it. He also took me through the signalling process since he was also signalman as well. The token instrument was in the station building and I think I remember that the process of signalling and exchanging tokens entailed a fair bit of walking back and forth between station building and box. I remember him telling me about their method of dealing with a very early morning train to save staff coming in early, whereby the train was offered along all the stations on the line and accepted and tokens left out for the train crew to pick up at the end of an evening shift. The train crew picked up and deposited tokens overnight. The first action on the day shift was to complete the operation. Don't ask me at this remove for all the details - the details of signalling are not my strong point. ;)

Jim.

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:53 pm

Found some of them surprisingly quickly. ;) These would have been taken in 1964 - my daughter arriving in March 65 stopped all my travels. ;)

The signal box
DalmallyBox01x.jpg
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DalmallyBox02x.jpg
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DalmallyBox03x.jpg
DalmallyBox03x.jpg (86.03 KiB) Viewed 21815 times

Apparently three is the limit. ;)

I'll continue on another message.

Jim.

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:05 pm

More signal box
DalmallyBox05x.jpg
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DalmallyBox04xx.jpg
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DalmallyBox06xx.jpg
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Bird and sheds to follow.

Jim.

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:09 pm

Bird - heron?
DalmallyBird01x.jpg
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DalmallyBird02x.jpg
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And the lean to offices on what was the wall of the engine shed - I think.
DerelictShed01x.jpg
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Jim.

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:13 pm

And the last three shots of the lean to offices.
DerelictShed02x.jpg
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DerelictShed03x.jpg
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DerelictShed04x.jpg
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And it's me in the pictures holding one foot of a tape measure between my fingers for scaling. ;) Wife took the pictures.

Jim.

MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:55 pm

I have a drawing of the water tower. I can get it reduced for reproduction if you want. Also the MRN in 1937 did an article on the station. I'll dig it out for you. The following 2 pix are from LMS Engine Sheds. Turntable diameter was 50ft.
Attachments
Dalmally 2.jpg
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Dave Lochrie
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Dave Lochrie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:23 pm

There is a drawing of the signal box exterior in Ian Futers' Modelling Scottish Railways, and as well as main and down platform buildings in TTL (not at home so can't check) -a full survey of the main station building appears here, [color=#4040BF]http://www.idparchitects ... -5[/color]. An email to the architectural practice might be rewarding they have also done Oban, Callander and Taynuilt (John Paton works in that field and may know someone at IDP)
That just leaves the rest of the engine shed and the turntable.

Dave L

Alan K
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Alan K » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Re the picture of Dalmally water tank from LMS Engine Sheds, can anyone tell whether this was taken in LMS days or earlier? I'm thinking particularly about the colour!! Also what was the purpose of the lighter coloured panel on the side of the tank? I've seen this before on water tanks elsewhere, but the panel doesn't always appear to contain anything.

Alan

Barry Rhys
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Barry Rhys » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:19 am

JimG, is that hair or were you wearing a tam-o'-shanter?

'60s indeed.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

JimG
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by JimG » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:56 am

Barry Rhys wrote:JimG, is that hair or were you wearing a tam-o'-shanter?

'60s indeed.
My nickname at school was "flubrush" - double crown skull and jet black hair which would defy any management unless left fairly long. ;) I can remember that Brylcreem was a necessity in my youth. ;) I had stopped using it by the time I got married - as is obvious. ;)

Jim.

MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Alan K wrote:Re the picture of Dalmally water tank from LMS Engine Sheds, can anyone tell whether this was taken in LMS days or earlier? I'm thinking particularly about the colour!! Also what was the purpose of the lighter coloured panel on the side of the tank? I've seen this before on water tanks elsewhere, but the panel doesn't always appear to contain anything.

Alan
Here's the drawing for the Dalmally tank as promised. I'm posting it on its side to make the most of the size restrictions. The photo in LMS Engine Sheds was un-dated. According to the drawing, the colour was two coats of approved colour over one of paint! I've no idea about the light coloured panel, but it wasn't part of the construction, which was of 6ft by 4ft plates. This suggests to me that it may be a manufacturer's plate.

Best

Mike
Attachments
dalmally tank 1.jpg
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David Elvy
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by David Elvy » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Thank you all for sharing the pictures, much appreciated.

I found the station building drawing on-line and will be contacting IDP to see if a higher resolution copy is available.

Does anyone know why a small turn table was retained; it obviously wouldn’t be much use for most of the tender locos used on the line?

Does anyone have details of the track arrangement pre the lines extension to Oban?

As always, any and all assistance much appreciated.

David

dumb buffer
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by dumb buffer » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:37 pm

Quite irrelevant, but perhaps interesting. How was the water pumped up into the Dalmally tank - there doesn't seem to be a pump there? Was it drawn from a source with sufficient head to get up to the tank? And more widely, did most water tanks have a pumped supply -- no mains water then.

Allan F

Barry Rhys
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Barry Rhys » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:00 am

Dave Lochrie wrote:There is a drawing of the signal box exterior in Ian Futers' Modelling Scottish Railways, and as well as main and down platform buildings in TTL (not at home so can't check) -a full survey of the main station building appears here, [color=#4040BF]http://www.idparchitects ... -5[/color]. An email to the architectural practice might be rewarding they have also done Oban, Callander and Taynuilt (John Paton works in that field and may know someone at IDP)
That just leaves the rest of the engine shed and the turntable.

Dave L

Hi Dave, you may be thinking I'm following you around here! Sorry.

I noticed in your post that the quoted website address was not 'clickable' to open the site, and openly displays the enclosing and tags (they should be invisible). I've done a bit of experimenting here, and I think it's because of you selecting a colour for the website address - while writing this post your quoted post shows me all the

Code: Select all

 tags, and I notice that the website address includes [color] and [/color] tags [u]within[/u] the [url]and[/url] tags.  Using the [u]URL[/u] function key [u]automatically[/u] changes the web address to blue font, and I think using the 'Font colour' option prevents the [u]URL[/u] function from working.

Here I've tried 3 options:
1. Copied exactly from the code in your post (ie. with Font colour option then [u]URL[/u] option):  [url][color=#4040BF]http://www.idparchitects.co.uk/index.php?page=historic-5[/color][/url]
The full web address is shown in blue, but enclosed with [url]and[/url] tags, and is [u]not[/u] clickable to open the site.

2. Copied the website address from your post, then used the [u]URL[/u] option only (ie. no colour change):  [url]http://www.idparchitects.co.uk/index.php?page=historic-5[/url]
The full web address is automatically displayed in blue and underlined, and is clickable to open the site.

3. Finally, the easiest option of all: you don't actually have to use the [u]URL[/u] function at all!  Simply by writing the website address - either with or without the "http://" preamble - the posting function automatically converts it to a clickable address, coloured blue and underlined, without even asking you!
Here I've simply written the website address "www..." etc in normal text without writing the http:// preamble:  www.idparchitects.co.uk/index.php?page=historic-5  This has automatically been converted to blue, underlined and clickable - honest, I didn't touch a thing!  Note that although the http:// preamble is not shown, if you hover your mouse over the address the full preamble appears automatically in front of the address.
And here writing the address and including the http:// preamble:  http://www.idparchitects.co.uk/index.php?page=historic-5  Note that a few characters have been replaced by "..." to keep the displayed address to a reasonable display length, which didn't happen with the No.2 Option above - obviously it's fully registered and clickable though.

Hope that saves some frustration.  I've only learnt such things through use though, never by reading the instructions.  Writing this post was hell though, because whenever I write tags like [url] and [color] the software tries actioning them!

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:42 pm

Here's the article from Model Railway News. It's again printed sideways to make maximum use of the space. There are a large number of plans in Register House on the Dalmally-Oban contract. Search on Dalmally in the subject box and RHP in the reference box.

Mike
Attachments
dalmally article.jpg
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John Paton
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by John Paton » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:11 pm

David,

Sorry to joint this debate rather late, I had taken my eyes off the forum for a few days as most "hobby" time has been devoted to the station article for the next True Line.

I have a full set of original CR drawings of the stone station building + verandah details. They are not suitable for scanning but I'll send you photocopies if you send me your address (by e-mail if you wish to [email protected]). I also have an LMS drawing of the waiting room / tearoom building which sat on the down platform, which was printed in True Line 97. Looking through the photos which have been posted I don't see the 1950 Photomatic one which shows this building. I upload it here together with a postcard which shows the back of the shed. Also an early-60s photo of the down platform building.

Cheers,

John
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CA Dalmally 1950.jpg
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CA Dalmally 02.jpg
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Dave Lochrie
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Dave Lochrie » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:22 pm

Mike has beaten me to it, but I felt the post could do with a plan, for the benefit of those less familiar with the station. The C&O was not well covered by OS maps due to the infrequency with which remote areas of Scotland were re-surveyed. Some like the Ballachullish Branch and the St Fillans to Lochearnhead manged to pass in and out of existence without being captured.
DALMALLY 1900.jpg
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As this post is beginning to look like a modellers guide to Dalmally I enclose an abstract of some of the RHP plans listed, there are other plans listed though many of these refer to the entire Dalmally to Oban Contract
RHP99224 Date 1866

'Callander and Oban Railway. Plan and sections of Dalmally Station ground.' Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:480] 1 in = 40 ft; and [1:240] 1 in = 20 ft. 545 x 2440 mm.
Railway plan from Peg 825 to Peg 828 showing layout of track and station buildings, with sections. Sites of proposed booking office, goods shed, cattle pens and police office noted. Marked 'Cancelled' in pencil. Annotated in red ink and pencil. Coloured. Measurements given. Linen backing.

RHP99253 Date c 1873

'Callander and Oban Railway. Dalmally Contract. Dalmally Station.' Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
Multiple scales. 545 x 2250 mm.
Railway plan from Peg 215 to termination of Dalmally Contract, with sections. Sites of proposed booking office, engine shed, turntable, and cattle pens noted. Includes architectural drawings of platform walls and wharf walls. Annotated in red and black ink and pencil. Coloured. Measurements given. Linen backing

RHP99256 Date 1875

'Callander and Oban Railway. Plan of proposed booking office etc. at Dalmally.' Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:48] 1 in = 4 ft. 780 x 560 mm.
Front and back elevations, plan and sections of station building containing booking office, luggage room, waiting room, ladies waiting room, and toilets.Coloured. Measurements given.

RHP99257 Date 1876

'Callander and Oban Railway. Drawing of engine shed at Dalmally Station.' Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:60] 1 in = 5 ft. 560 x 780 mm.
Side and end elevations, plan and section. Coloured. Measurements given.

RHP99258 Date 1875

'Callander and Oban Railway. Dalmally Contract. Drawing of platelayer's cottages.' Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:72] 1 in = 6 ft. 550 x 760 mm.
Front and end elevations, plan and section, with specifications. Alterations to chimneys and fireplaces marked in red ink. Annotated in pencil. Coloured. Measurements given.

RHP99268 Date 1875

'Callander and Oban Railway. Dalmally Contract. Drawing of engine turntable pit and cattle pen.' Lithographers unknown. Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:72] 1 in = 6 ft; and [1:48] 1 in = 4 ft. 435 x 755 mm.
Plan and section of turntable pit, with measurements exclusive of excavation. Plan and elevations of cattle pen with specifications. Marked 'Scroll' in red ink. Annotated in red ink. Measurements given.

RHP99269 Date 1875

'Callander and Oban Railway. Dalmally Contract. Drawings of station gate, station fencing, buffer and carriage bank.' Lithographers unknown. Engineers: B & E Blyth, 135 George Street, Edinburgh.
[1:24] 1 in = 2 ft. 510 x 750 mm.
Plan, elevation and section of buffer and carriage bank. Plan and elevation of station gate. Plan and elevation of station fencing. Marked 'Scroll' in red ink.

RHP18667 Date 1875

Plan and Elevation of Engine Turntable Pit and Cattle Pen On The Dalmally Section of The Callander and Oban Railway. Engineers: Blyth & Cunningham
No lithographer
I haven't been able to identify which drawing relates to the overbridge at the Oban end of the station without checking the relevant contracts.

There is no record of how the station looked in it's short life as a terminus, but the position of the Engine Shed at the Oban end of the station does not appear part of the earlier layout. The retention of the shed and turntable is quoted to have been in connection with it's role as a railhead for the district sheep traffic (the 50ft turntable would have been sufficient to turn either a 181 Class Oban Bogie or a Jumbo), but another reason in CR days must be that the Caledonian had not entirely given-up on the Inveraray Branch, for which Dalmally was to become the junction, but which the fuedal Duke of Argyll had done so much to oppose ( a task which I started tracklaying and then hastily abandoned as my first P4 project). It is certainly one of the most attractive proposed schemes for modellers of "what if" (I settled on Anderson's more modest Loch Katrine as my big layout- not much architecture, just hundreds and hundreds of trees!)

Dave L
Last edited by Dave Lochrie on Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Not strictly about the station, and it may not be the right period, but the 1897 winter timetable had a train leaving Oban at 0945, terminating at Dalmally 10.53. The summer timetable same year had an early morning train starting from Dalmally at 0620, which dawdled to Oban, arriving at 0742. I copied this info from a copy of the Oban telegraph ages ago, so can't give you any more info. I'm afraid.

Best

Mike

John Paton
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by John Paton » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:06 pm

Gentlemen,

I forgot that I had A3 copies of the Dalmally drawings so I have scanned them and attach here - considerably compressed to enable upload.

David's OS extract looks as if it shows the original timber station building which was burned down in 1898 (illustrated in True Line 99). Its plan can also be seen dotted on the site plan on attached sheet 1.
This original building was a slightly enlarged version of the standard Blyth & Cunningham building used at Luib, Crianlarich and Tyndrum.

John
Attachments
Dalmally sheet 3 compressed.jpg
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Dalmally Sheet 1 compressed.jpg
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John Paton
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by John Paton » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:04 pm

I have just noticed Allan's interesting sideline on station water supplies - these diversions are one of the joys of this forum!

Over the years I have seen a number of "station water supply" drawings, those in rural areas sometimes show a source above the station to provide a head. I suspect that Dalmally's supply was drawn from the hills above, and that somewhere in the Network Rail vaults there will be a plan of it.

I attach the water supply plan for Appin station as an example.

John
Attachments
Appin BR plan.JPG
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MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:19 pm

I have the station water supply drawing for Strathyre, which of course powered the heron fountain, like the one at Dalmally, as well as the water tank This also was drawn from the hills behind the main (only) street to create sufficient pressure.

Best

Mike

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Dave Lochrie » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:01 pm

Neil,
thank yes you are quite correct I was following Option 1, and the only justification I can come up with is that I didn't like the default shade of blue or blue, a condition that comes as a natural side-effect of modelling the Caledonian Railway!
John
I 've checked and the OS 1/2500 sheet extract is dated 1898, but presumably surveyed earlier (the full sheet usually gives this date in the small print). The C & O didn't have an impressive fire record, can't have been good for their insurance premiums, but as the Ardrossan posting showed, building timber stations did seem to carry a high risk, timber engine sheds being even more susceptible.
Nevertheless the Model Railway News plan annotations mention a timber extention to the rear of the engine shed, which believe I can see on the postcard view from the south-east. I can find no reference to this in minute or plan form, but it is evidence that use of the shed was ongoing and thought worthy of further investment.
The C & O had an established history of temporary termini, and at the time of the opening to Dalmally the large financial contribution by the L&NWR and accelerated completion to Oban was still over the next horizon for the indefatigable Mr Anderson. What I had tried to say in the earlier post, was that the track layout, and particularly the shed access was laid out more as a through station from the start when compared to the layouts at the previous temporary termini

Dave L
Last edited by Dave Lochrie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Barry Rhys
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by Barry Rhys » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:26 am

Dave Lochrie wrote:Neil,
thanks yes you are quite correct I was following Option 1, and the only justification I can come up with is that I didn't like the default shade of blue, a condition that comes as a natural side-effect of modelling the Caledonian Railway!

Dave L
Have to agree with you there Dave, personally I'm more of a carriages fan myself, but it's very inconsiderate of the forum software people not to provide the correct shade of blue.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

John Paton
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: Dalmally Station

Post by John Paton » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:31 am

elvan4472 wrote:A couple of us have started the research stage of a project to extend an existing layout and build a model of Dalmally station, the track layout will be as it was as a through station in the 1920's.
We are trying to minimise the use of modellers license but, the maximum platform length looks like it need to be restricted to a Class 66 + 3 x 57ft coaches and the approaches will need to be curved.

The reason for the message to the forum is that I wish to appeal to anyone who might have any information that could help with researching this project, work isn’t likely to start in earnest until later next year but if anyone has any info at all that could help it would be appreciated, thanks.


David
David - Following a dig through my drawings this morning, I attach an undated LMS plan of Dalmally. As before, let me know if you want a higher definition copy or a photocopy.

Regards,

John
Attachments
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