Station accessories

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Hi does anyone make station accessories that I could use for Caley station around ww1?

David Elvy
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Station accessories

Post by David Elvy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:47 pm

What scale?

David

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:34 pm

Sorry 4mm.

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave Lochrie » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:39 am

David recently asked a question on the Structures and Equipment topic http://www.crassoc.org.uk/forum/viewtop ... f=6&t=1112 which I would like to expand and reply to as part of a guide to modelling the Caledonian.
Because I think this could be a useful source of information for anyone seeking to model the Caledonian, I'm going to un-ashamedly hi-jack the post in 2 ways.
Part 1 is how do I make the Minories design more Caledonian, without deviating too far from the basic design -"MacMinories".
Part 2 is more about how do I dress that layout to "Caledonianise" it.

I'm not going to indulge in a theoretical discussion about what is or is not a Minories design you can find that elsewhere. CLF had a specific prototype inspiration for the design but we need it ot be relevant to our chosen pre-group company (even if we are modelling in BR times).
Basic Minories.jpg
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For those not too familiar with Minories, I attach the origial CJF design above but the best contemporary representation can be found over on http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ed/page-19 produced by Harleqin attached as a PDF at Post 459. You can recognise the refinements made by Phil, who is obviously a designer, because his approach is so clearly based on problem solving.

The original design is based on Peco fixed track work and it will be interesting to see a new generation using the much awaited Peco bullhead track.
I believe that David models in S4 (i've read posts by him on S4um), as do I, so we are not restricted to fixed geometry point work, as is the original design, and as well as being able to use interlaced sleepering, we could also use a more prototypical slip in the design, saving space and reducing the number of turnouts. But given my track building skills I still might be tempted to stick to simple turnouts, tricky enough with interlaced timbers!

Even with an imaginary design you have to make some decisions like when the line was constructed and where in the country the layout is situated. The date is important because by the late 1880's onwards the Caledonian had developed a strong and recognisable style and anything built after that would need to represent that style.
MacMinories 3.jpg
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For a 3 platform urban station this usually means elegant cast-iron platform canopies and the architectural touch of James Miller. This doesn't have to be the full Wemyss Bay, there are many examples where the style is reigned in, but until someone produces a kit of suitable parts, this is a big ask for a modeller in any scale.
Stirling copy.jpg
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Lyndsay Galloway is building a model of Barnton one of only a few later termini to have escaped this standard treatment
As a modeller of something long-gone I am inevitably inspired by photographs and plans (either OS or company track plans), so I examine photographs to identify locations that could be used to add detail to a track plan.
Minories was imagined around a City of London location either constrained by a cutting or an embankment, and but there are other instances where the available space is limited by geography. There are several Scottish coastal termini where the site is squeezed between the existing town and a riverside or loch side -Fort William is the obvious example but on the Caledonian, Oban, Gourock, Ardrossan and Wemyss Bay are all examples where the land was physically reclaimed, and Dundee (both), Leith and the location for a Caley passenger station at Granton fit the pattern of occupying similarly limited sites. None of these are small and I'm not suggesting them as prototype locations, but all have aspects which could lend a visual identity to a layout.

DaveL

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave Lochrie » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:50 am

Geographical location is important, so if you wanted to model a Callander and Oban based layout you could choose Inveraray. The then Duke of Argyll vetoed the proposal, but a passenger only location on the front (vulgar goods elsewhere, to the south of the town at Newtown, where the second diplomatically proposed station was to be sited) would make an attractive site.
OBAN .jpg
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For Inveraray, I would go for a basic minories but have an Oban style roof over platforms 1 and 2, leaving Platform 3 outside (like the Ballachulish platforms at Oban) on the quayside for fish and occasional excursion use. Some ornate masonry with ironwork and an avenue of trees could separate the station from the town. It should be possible to create a photographic back scene as there is little modern intrusion to photoshop out.
Inveraray -%22before the railway%22.jpg
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You could use a similar approach for a Caledonian termini at Ayr Harbour (L&A extension) using the fairly utilitarian timber ridge and furrow building at Montgomerie Pier as the visual inspiration. Again have only 2 platforms covered.
Ardrossan Montgomerie Pier.jpg
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I have to confess to designing layouts primarily as a backdrop to my Caledonian rolling stock, and although the later Minories plan has a kickback goods parcels siding this is still quite limiting. In evolving (deliberately didn't say designing) a my current layout I decided that instead of using such a spaces for a siding which could be configured to handle a limited number of traffic types, it is better if it goes back offstage to the fiddle yard to serve an unspecified number of offstage sidings. In the case of Camelon this is an Ironworks, but for Ayr it would be the docks. It would be a compromise too far for this to kickback from a bay platform so by widening the baseboard to 15"" you would run a further line via a facing point at A
Basic Minories.jpg
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following the reverse curve alongside the Platform 3 quayside, keeping the kick back turnout on the board with all the other point work. Goods trains reverse into the docks (back into the fiddle yard) via another over bridge . To avoid uniformity, I'd let the passenger bay terminate before the baseboard end with an end loading dock, and let the new goods head shunt go to the edge of the baseboard terminating in one of Dave Franks bufferstops. You could add a release road but thats starting to deviate too far from the minories concept. If the goods operation offends I'd rather use the version with 2 goods sidings going off stage to imply the harbour branch has its own run around.
Another solution used by those concerned with the absense of goods traffic with the Minories concept is to imagine the station is a through route, portraying one end of a larger station, but now you need a fiddle yard at both ends and much more space.
Gourock Quayside.jpg
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I, personally, prefer to locate my imaginary layouts in real locations. The advantages this gives me in terms of narrowing down the type of stock you might need to model could be seen by others as a limitation. For example a model based on Inveraray would expect to see only locomotices used on the C&O, plus a selection of other stock used on the line, with the addition of a branch passenger set to run from the junction at Dalmally. In that case it might me better to give the station a more generic name such as Custom House Quay or Tollcross for a non-coastal version.

DaveL

Steve Parsons
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Steve Parsons » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:01 am

When you say Station accessories do you just mean benches and barrows etc?

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 am

Thanks gents, this is what I am building just now, it is a minories type layout, I have decided to model using 00 for this layout.
Yes the benches barrows lamps etc.

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:31 pm

Thanks gents, plenty to ponder, I stay in Greenock right beside Gourock, and the picture above of the pier brings back memories of running along the gangways using them a bit like see saws.
My scratchbuilding skills are very limited I fear, although I am up to butchering various plastic/cardboard gets to try and get an approximate likeness.

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave Lochrie » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:14 am

Hi Dave,

Building the minories design in OO probably simplifies the project, and whilst it would be nice to see it recreated with the new Peco bullhead track, the initial range may be too limited.
Jumping forward in my ramble, you did specify you had aquired a Bachman Signal box and were planning to use the Metcalfe Stone Station Building.
The signal box is a Northern Section prototype (similar designs did appear elsewhere), it also indicates a station built before the turn of the century.The number of real urban locations in the Northern Section that the Caledonian did not reach is more limited, look at the abortive attempts to break into Fife (though passenger traffic was not the principle motivation here) for a location?

For visual inspiration, its back to my favourite view of Brechin, and by excluding the non-passenger elements you can see how a Macminories could look -just omit the central release road. You have the same 3 platforms as Minories and even have a prototype for the short dock platform. You could use retaining walls as a backdrop but I'd be tempted to keep the attractive industrial buildings (ask Jim Watt if the laser cut he did in 2mm for Kirkallanmuir could be run in 4mm?)for at least some of the length. There is also the fact that some of the infrastructure survives.
BRECHIN copy copy.jpg
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There is still a lot of platform canopy but the design is much cruder than your average James Millar creation. The Metcalfe platform canopies are even cruder. If you can pick up enough Dapol ne Airfix kits, it is possible to convert these to a more Caledonian looking product, either longitudinal or ridge and furrow, It should be easy to get someone with a laser cutter to rum suitable valences, we have enough drawings of these. To cut down the work you could replace the first 9" with a train shed that most of these stations (Brechin included) originally had.
Brechin 2 copy.jpg
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The Metcalfe station building is certainly suitably Scottish (looks actually very Lancaster & Carlisle) and similar to several stations on the Caley.
Arbroath Front.jpg
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Blairgowrie Station front copy copy.jpg
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The D&A replacement building at Arbroath and even the later single story building accross the end of the platform at Blairgowrie. The stone mullions are present on both of these and the glazing is simpler than on the kit. If I was using this across the platform ends (minories is too limited in width to allow the location of the main building at Brechin to be copied) i would remove, at least, the first 2 courses of stonework -platforms that are modern BoT height are a spoiler for an attempt at a pre-group layout. I would also be tempted to cut the depth in half and only include the rear of the station. You can then add CALEDONIAN RAILWAY in mirror writing either fixed to the ridge of the roof, or written on the back scene..
Motherwell.jpg
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…this was a common feature on many Caley Stations.
to be continued...

Dave L

Steve Parsons
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Steve Parsons » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:42 am

David
I've been having a good look through books and on the web at different Caledonian stations and it seems unlike some of the larger English companies like the Midland who boasted that they made everything in its workshops from the pencil to a locomotive the only item brought in was the paper to write the order on. Or the GWR who cast there letters into every thing they could to station awnings right down to the bench ends.

The Caledonian seemed to have sourced its fixtures and fittings from local suppliers sometimes changing from area to area for example the benches and gas lamps found on a platform on the Callander and Oban might be different from those seen for example on the Balerno branch.

I would suggest any generic fitting from some of the detail parts suppliers would suffice if painted in the Caledonian company style and colours. Maybe people like these could help (No connection)
http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/dartcastings.php
or
http://www.langleymodels.co.uk/acatalog ... its_8.html
Hope this helps
Steve

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:03 pm

Hi here is a pic of what I have done so far.
The track is all Hornby track bar the peco double slip, and 2 peco lh points.
Its not quite minories though, I was going to use the top 2I lines between the platforms as the main lines, under canopy, the 3Rd line I'm not sure lol but the last one was going to be a carriage siding, what do you think?
This is the middle board, the next one will be the actual station board and the third will have a fiddle yard.

David
Attachments
DSC_0017-960x540-480x270.JPG
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jimwatt2mm
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by jimwatt2mm » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:54 pm

As others have said, using buildings to standard CR designs can instantly set the scene as Caley. My original layout (Connerburn) had a track plan which was a mirror of Moffat with a dock added. The buildings were all standard CR designs (Lesmahagow station, Haughhead junction signal box and Gourock goods shed). At the New Lanark show in (I think) 1999, a now deceased member of the Association who could remember the final years of the Caley came up to it when I was setting up the traverser for the next arrival and there were no locos in sight. He stood and looked at it and then said 'Pure Caley'. That was enough to satisfy me!

The drawing for the laser cut walls for the warehouse building could certainly be scaled up to 4mm, but there are one or two errors in it (which I was able to 'work round') which I would need to sort out first. The back wall is blank and the rear left corner is cut away to fit against the backscene. Also neither of the gable walls are at right angles to the front. It was only 'inspired' by the one at Brechin and is in no way a model of it. PM me if you are interested.

Jim W

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:27 pm

Cheers Jim, looking at the pic above rs"Machineries", does anyone produce a low profile kit of the old tenement buildings as shown?

jimwatt2mm
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by jimwatt2mm » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:09 pm

Not low profile, but this might be adaptable.

http://www.smartmodels.co.uk/res08---te ... lding.html

Jim

lindsay_g
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by lindsay_g » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:54 pm

I'm sure someone mentioned the first point that I'm going to make below but I can't see it this evening :

- The only truly Caley platform accessories that have been produced are firstly the "freebies" that filled up spaces on Decent Models (now Alba Models) etches of Drummond 4 or 6 wheelers and comprised of platform seats, drinking fountains, and room name-board brackets. Sure there was a fourth thing but can't think what it was off hand. However, unless you want to build old Drummond coaches these are really out of your reach - unless other members have spare etches to give away (I can certainly provide a drinking fountain and possibly a room name-board brackets). Secondly, The recent etch from the society had the poster-boards and canopy brackets but these may now have sold out.

- I'm not at the stage of adding barrows, etc., so haven't looked to see how items from suppliers might do as close approximates for Caley items. In addition to the suppliers mentioned by Steve, there are some lovely platform barrows, etc produced by Southwark Bridge (now marketed by Roxey) at : http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/categor ... cessories/

Hope this is of some help,

Lindsay

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave Lochrie » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:19 am

Lyndsay,
Sadly there is no commercial equivelant to the Standard Caledonian or C&O platform barrow. If you are modelling in LMS or BR days the Southwark Bridge range produces the standard Midland Railway barrow which was also built in large numbers at St Rollox (LMS ST210), but instead of the end plate being at right angles as on the Midland design they were constructed with the plate angled at 120 degrees from the body in a direct copy of the Caledonian design.
St Fillans 1902.jpg
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However, I have a drawing for the standard CR barrow (2 styles of wheels were used) for which the measurements were supplied by Jim Summers, from the survivor at Bo'ness (its usually hidden beneath a pile of period luggage). I had doubts as to whether etched brass was the best material for these (3D printing) but having seen the Southwark result with the Midland design I may have been wrong. The NBR design looks to be identical.
Assorted Barrows at Balerno.jpg
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Should we use that last fact to tempt Ian,or should I contact Roxey to ask if they would add a CR/NBR design, they normally produce in both 4 and 7mm scales. Every Caledonian station had several of these, and although sack trucks were used they were far less common than on English Railways, and I can find very little photographic evidence of their use.
CR Barrow Types on annual station  inventry.jpg
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I also have drawings for the braked 3 wheel flat trolley, which was commonly used at larger stations. Brechin have both a standard barrow and a 3-wheel barrow.
Brechin Barrows.jpg
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Dave L

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:13 pm

Thanks, Lyndsay there is no 4mm kits showing on the Alba models website, just 7mm pieces.
I have emailed them to find out, wouldn't mind building some older 6 and 4 wheel coaches.
I have 2 of the caley coaches Balerno coaches, still to finish of course lol.

David

jasp
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by jasp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:23 am

Alba (David Elby) took on the Decent Models 4mm range in addition to the 7mm range.
I don’t know if he is producing the former but has a limited amount of stock.
Suggest you get in touch with him via Alba or pm through this forum.
I have some spares of the “bits and pieces” but currently unavailable as my stuff is in storage during renovation of our next property.
Jim P

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:39 am

Cheers

Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave Lochrie » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:30 am

David,
Going back to your original question about your how to make your Metcalfe Station building look more Caledonian.
If you can measure about 5 stone courses on the gables and print a couple of the carved masonry scrolls to that measurement, it should do the job.
CR Stonework 2.jpg
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You may need to adjust the tone of the image to the stonework on the kit, but you can either adjust the colour before printing or blend in with a watercolour pencil, or similar.
Metcalfe Station.jpg
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I'll add some more information about station furniture (lamps, seats etc) over the next few days.
Meantime if you PM me your address I will stick some detailing items in the post.

Dave L

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:12 am

Thanks very much Dave.

Dave John
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dave John » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:57 pm

Well, the "Mikes models" water crane is still available;

http://www.holtmodelrailways.com/photo.php?code=MM39

Stop giggling, its a start. and nice castings they are too.

Dgp1957
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by Dgp1957 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:28 pm

Cheers Dave, I bought the model Cheers, any tips on paint colours for it?

David

LarryC
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:28 am

Re: Station accessories

Post by LarryC » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:16 pm

David

About 30 years ago John Paton gave me some black and white copies of photos of Dunblane station from 1906-13; I have a vague memory of seeing colour versions including the water cranes, which I think were black. You may be able to confirm this; the National Monuments Record of Scotland (Rokeby Collection) is PT/6492.

Going back to another strand, Inveraray featured in N gauge form in the July edition of Railway Modeller, in the guise of 'Invercally'. It looked good.

One thing that intrigues me is the surface of platforms. The photo of Motherwell seems to suggest some form of tiles or setts; Buchannan Street had wooden surfaces, while many country stations seem to have gravel or tarmac surfaces. Other look more like concrete. Did the Caley have a policy as it upgraded stations or did contractors use local materials as available?

jimwatt2mm
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Station accessories

Post by jimwatt2mm » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:37 pm

I recall in the 1960's that Motherwell had a terra-cotta type brick surface in the areas under the canopies. They had an inscribed diamond pattern on them. Sort of reverse of what you get on checkerplate. I can't recall what the rest of the surfaces was.

Jim W

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