An etch of odds and ends

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
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Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

An etch of odds and ends

Post by Jim Summers »

I have started this as a new subject, but some of you will remember a few weeks ago there was discussion on here about mileposts and point levers and things in general, which would be rather nice to have on a fret of wee Caledonian items.

I had suggested that a friend might be prepared to put one together, and he is.
I will be seeing him on 14th January and can discuss the project with him in detail then.

So, are there any more suggestions as to what it should contain?

Also, it would be helpful, I think, if those who made suggestions earlier could repeat them under this new heading, so that we have everything together. So please be kind enough to repeat them.

At the moment, I think we see this as a 4mm etch, but if there is enough interest, other scales could figure.


Jim S
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 707
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Jim Summers wrote:
At the moment, I think we see this as a 4mm etch, but if there is enough interest, other scales could figure.
Any chance of getting them done in 2mm scale (1:152.4) also? There are several Caledonian modellers in the 2mm Scale Association and they - the etches I mean - will only take up ¼ the area of the 4mm ones! :D

Jim W
Jim Summers
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Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Jim Summers »

Jim asked about 2mm, not surprisingly.

I would think it is possible, but let's see what people want on the etch, and then I'll debate with my etching friend just how things could be accommodated.

JIm S
Dave Lochrie
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Jim,
I'm going to be awayfrom home and possibly internet access until Monday evening, and I didn't contribute to the earlier thread, but of course will certainly purchase a few frets whatever is decided. The suggestions I would make are all suitable for etching but may not all be appropriate for inclusion on the combined fret depending on how you or Ian? feel.
CR mileposts (I have artwork (pre-digital for these @ 10 or 12mm to 1foot)

CR standard platform barrow (the one you measured) but I am pretty certain this design was in common use on the NBR as well (which is obviously a good thing but should it then be left off a CR fret?)
CR awning (again the NBR version would be useful and was much more standardised than on the CR)
Poster Boards (which John Boyle did produce at one point in both 4 and 7mm)
Standard wall-mounted "keep the pavement dry" drinking fountain

CR wagon number plates
CR trader registration plates (standard RCH design and again NBR versions are just as useful) I have good photos and some crude artwork for some of these)
Building plates for Scottish wagon builders, RYP, HN, HamiltonWC and possibly Scottish Wagon Owners (and as above these are not all specific to CR modellers and I have photos and rough AW)
As an alternative, depending on how people feel about these wagon based items, I could over time set these up in the members section as a downloadable resource possibly even allowing the modeller to customise the numbers/ dates, whereas with etching we are not going to be able to get all of the numbers we would all need or want. It is a question of individual taste, I myself tend to the view that a self-adhesive paper wagon plate, though with little relief can be more convincing than etched plates with a more limited range of numbers which require some skill to paint. I haven't the time tonight (still need to pack) but I can upload some examples next week, and Allan F may also have examples he has done independantly.

Dave L
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Jim Summers »

Thank you, Dave, most helpful.

I was minded to see if it would be possible to do an oil lamp casing, suitable for platforms, signal boxes and the like. It could be delicate, but I think Andy Copp has achieved it for the Highland folk.

Jim S
dumb buffer
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Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by dumb buffer »

Dave Lochrie wrote: Standard wall-mounted "keep the pavement dry" drinking fountain

....and Allan F may also have examples he has done independantly.

Dave L
John Boyle did the "Swallows" wall plate, also the drain to go under it; it was on the "odds and ends" etch that sometimes came with the 6w underframe, with the platform benches and the signboard frames.

I have numerous NBR wagon plates on sticky backed paper -- there are quite a number going round on Burntisland, and they seem to have stayed on. I've never yet got a round tuit for CR plates, but I keep meaning to -- and I will!! The technique is susceptible to quite fine detail, as on this special I did for Ray Nolton. (I wouldn't like my wagons to be photographed this close up!)

Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached. I'm told. What does that mean? It means no attached picture! Sorry

Allan F
charles d
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by charles d »

The previous posts have illustrated the wide range of possibilities and someone will have to adjudicate on what would make up a "general utility" sheet!

I think a station and signals detail sheet would be a good starting point and would cover from pregrouping days to the 1960s.

One item I have not seen mentioned in this new thread is the two lever ground frame.

Regarding wagon plates, I have a RYP plate and a (smaller) HN plate if these are of any use for origination.

Charles D
John Lindsay
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by John Lindsay »

I would buy the 4mm etch whatever it ends up with, bit my initial interest was in a two lever Stevens ground frame. I think this was the starting point of the previous thread!

Thanks

John
Barry Rhys
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Barry Rhys »

Hope nobody minds me copying a couple of paragraphs from my post on the previous topic.

Regarding thoughts for what to include on an etch, I'm trying to think of items that would probably be used by a lot of CR modellers. I think most people would like an etch from which they could use a good proportion of the parts, not just a few of the bits. So one-offs such as specific loco numberplates would not fit that. Also, items that people would either want lots of, or none of (I'm thinking for example of wagon plates, where a wagon modeller would probably want loads but others wouldn't use any, so a limited number only might not satisfy anybody) might best be avoided.

For a suitable grouping of pieces that a 'typical' CR modeller might use a large proportion of, I think a 'station impedimenta' etch would be ideal. In fact, the etch partially shown in the 'Mike Gilgannon Documents' thread in the 'Rolling Stock' forum area here seems to be just such a thing. Thinking of what bits would be of likely use to a CR station modeller (which I suspect most readers are), certainly seats, poster boards, enamel sign frames like those shown in the Mike Gilgannon thread, and station barrows and trolleys, all come to mind as being items that would be used in multiple, in approximately similar proportionate numbers for a given size of station, quite large items so would quickly fill an etch, quite intricate so not easily modelled otherwise, and suitable for etching (though bulky wooden types of barrows and trolleys would be unsuitable). Would such an etch be unwelcome as it would be too similar to one previously available? I wouldn't recommend station awnings though since the quantity required would vary greatly for different stations.

Looking at the original Stevens 2-lever ground frame thread, I definitely think that would be popular and used by many.

For some real inspiration about station items, just have a look at this post by Dave Lochrie about Balerno station with a photo and accompanying detailed notes.

Like others though, I would buy an impedimenta etch irrespective of what assortment is on it.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
dumb buffer
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Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by dumb buffer »

Hardman plate.JPG
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This is the picture I tried to post yesterday at 1741 and I'm really testing following Jim Mac's advice

Allan F
Sinclair
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Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Sinclair »

Jim,

I would echo Neil's and others comments above about etch contents - some of the station and other items which make a model identifiable as Caledonian -
Thinking of what bits would be of likely use to a CR station modeller (which I suspect most readers are), certainly seats, poster boards, enamel sign frames like those shown in the Mike Gilgannon thread, and station barrows and trolleys, all come to mind


Even if these have been on other etches in the past but are no longer available I would like these to be included although like most other respondents I'll but the etch anyway.

Sinclair
tony brenchley
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by tony brenchley »

Somebody has already picked up my earlier suggestion of various sizes of poster boards. Did the standard Trespass sign have a standard frame and post. Most of us with models could do with a few of these.

My other suggestions are a ground signal and point levers. These are already available from other sources but there are considerable benefits in bringing common items together on a Caledonian Miscellany etch supported if not sponsored by the Association.

Tony B
Dave Lochrie
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: An etch of odds and ends

Post by Dave Lochrie »

I agree with comments re inclusion of items which are common user (or as common as possible) so this should exclude wagon plates for the reasons given in Neil's post. My post was a hasty wish list due to Jim having a deadline, but we need further time to discuss this.

Much of this is about to producing items in the most approriate materials, and this, in turn has as much to do with individual preference (and scale you model in).
To take Caledonian cast wagon number plates as an example: both Allan F and myself have independently created digital artwork to enable us to produce limited (as much at times by the lack of adequate numbering records) runs of plates for own use. Allan's standards appear somewhat higher than my own, but I am re-assured that he also finds this an accectable (and cost effective) solution. NBR modellers are able to use the NBR Developments plates, but only for a relatively limited selection of wagons. As a 4mm layout builder I am more interested in trying to create a consistent quality across all models (ha ha!), but in any case I 'm not sure etched plates are any better looking in situ (probably my inability to paint them as crisply as I can print them). As you can see, the most difficult aspect is cutting a perfect oval thats only a few mm long!
P1110607.JPG
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I am more than happy to make these available to members through resources, along with other items which I hope will be of value, once I've resolved a few technical issues. As far as the wagon number plates are concerned I asked a typographer (as a favour) to recreate the artwork for a master plate and supply it with inter-changeable numbers. This means that the plate artwork is a Abode Illustrator/ Photoshop file meaning you can only input your personal choice of numbers if you have these programs, which is clearly of limited use to members! So I have some work to do before we can all print a self adhesive sheet of all our wagon requirements, but it is on the cards.
CR PLATE SAMPLE.jpg
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Balerno RiB.jpg
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There are a number of other items which could benefit from this approach, station running-in boards being one. I can usually do these on request within a few days (just ask) for simple station names, "change here for Killin" for example will take a bit longer (sorry Jim, I promised these 12 months ago).
I also have photographically reduced artwork for mileposts and Tresspass Signs as well as Caledonian and NBR trader registration plates and Hurst Nelson, RYP and Hamilton Wagon Co builders plates.
I need to take some advice on how best to format this, but the forum is the perfect medium to share this stuff amongst members, as well as enhancing the value of the forum.

To get back to the etch, as some of the items have been produced by John Boyle as fret-fillers it may be possible to group these items together (seats, projecting sign frames, poster boards and platform fountains) I'll have a chat re feasability as this may be the simplest route
Platform barrows are a subject I had already been looking into, and made an initial approach to SB Models, who already produce a selection of barrows. Indeed I volunteered the intrepid Jim Summers to venture forth, armed with little more than a measuring stick and a sketch, to capture one of the few remaing examples. Thanks to this I now have a working drawing for the standard 2 wheel barrow (see Balerno pic) as well as a 3 wheeler. I take on board Neil's comment on etching these but no one material (etching, laser cutting, cast or 3d printing) seems ideal for these, due to the mix of components but they would be fairly flimsy in anything other than etched. Help!
I also agree that valences and station windows (especially standardised Millar components) would be the subject of a separate project in either etched brass or maybe laser cut plastic.

Dave L
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