4 and 6 wheel coaches

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
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jasp
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by jasp »

Hatton’s will be producing a range of 4 and 6 wheel coaches.
It is proposed that the third batch will include coaches in CR livery - but it will be some time before these are produced.
These are “generic” coaches not based on particular prototypes but will, presumably, look the part.
Check out “genesis project” on hattons.co.uk
Jim P
Dave John
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Dave John »

I had a look, seems to have created quite a storm over there. At least if the CR liveried ones are in the third batch there will be plenty of posts about the initial batches to give an idea of whether they are worth buying.

I suspect that by the time they come out my silhouette could have cut out the bits to build a full sized one from 10 thou.
LarryC
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:28 am

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by LarryC »

Six-wheeled coaches are a challenge to get to run round curves the originals would not contemplate, so this is a welcome initiative. The wheelbase is a scale 23 feet, the breadth just under 8 feet and the body length 32 feet 5 inches or so. Checking out Mike Williams' magnum opus, the nearest fit seems to be the Drummond Diagram 8 First 5 compartment coach, which had the standard 23' wheelbase; its body length was 35' 6", so three feet longer - in other words, the model is 1.2 cm short. The other issue is that Hattons will be selling a 5 compartment Third, rather than a 5 compartment First. This can be amended using Fox's transfers, I'm sure. The Caley 6 wheeled Third had six compartments.

The other two 6 wheel offerings may be less useful. The Brake third has the Guard's accommodation at one end, rather than centrally. On the other hand, the spacings of the three Third compartments are pretty close to what the Caley used; buying two and then doing a Steve Parsons style cut-and-shut with a razor saw might produce a reasonable copy of a Diagram 14 Third, but at £30 apiece, £60 for a conversion to produce one coach may not be worth it. Maybe if unliveried/painted coacher become available for kitbashers, it might become economic.

The other issue is the Drummond full panelling, which I don't think Hattons' offerings will reproduce.

Hattons are to be commended for their initiative in producing stock for the independent companies pre-1923. Perhaps the range will increase if the initial runs are successful.
WCML55.68
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by WCML55.68 »

The first of these are out now with other liveries to follow shortly. The LNWR might be of particular interest. CR ones a way off yet.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/sit ... el%20coach
Orbiston
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Orbiston »

The newly announced Hornby 6 wheel coaches appear to be a closer match for the diagram 8 at first look. I cant see the dimensions and the LNWR 5 compartment third might be a useful donor although they are also producing a NBR which might be more satisfactory to repaint!
Steve Parsons
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Steve Parsons »

It does look as if some of the Hornby ones might be better suited to run as Caledonian stock some if looked at with a squint at q fast moving train would actually look quite good but with a little light tinkering some could be brought even closer to Caley specks like the 4 and 6 wheel brake third, I've not seen the end panels in detail yet but these ends could maybe altered to give a more Caley look.
Perhaps the 6 wheel composite again with a little work like converting the center lavatory into a luggage or even guards compartment and it would give it a very Pre Drummond look.
The 4 wheel first and third also the 6 wheel first and third should probably pass muster if repainted in Caley livery.

I can't see much scope for either the Hattons or Hornby coaches being used as LNWR carriages as none of them possess the classic and distinctive Wolverton style paneling.

I hope and feel the majority (especally the Hornby range) could be used as is if in or repainted in Caley livery and hope any changes needed are fairly small as it would defeat the object of having the range in the first place.
I think to a certain degree they will always be a compramises but it will be a way to build rakes of carriages in a fairly cost effective and certainly quicker manor than scratch building completely.
Steve Parsons
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Steve Parsons »

Having been talking in general to some people on the Hornby generic carriage thread on RMweb it seem there are no plans at the moment to release a range of there carriages in Caledonian livery but I've Emailed Hornby and am awaiting a response to what there intentions are regarding a Caley livery.

A few people on the RMweb site have expressed the view that Hornby have not done a very good job with the LNWR livery on these carriages and it is in fact closer to a Caledonian Livery than an LNWR one so I might purchase an example and see how it looks in the flesh I
Must say it has more of a Caley hue to it than a LNWR one, if true I can look at the the viability of changing the LNWR crests to Caledonian ones as well.
I shall report in due corse in the mean time here's a view of one of the Hornby 6 wheel carriages a full third in this case in what is supposed to be LNWR livery
20210216_114814.jpg
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Dave Lochrie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Steve,
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw them and although the 3rd layer panelling is not present, the upper panelling is closer to Caledonian than anything that came out of Wolverton. They will make a change from the Ratio GWR 4 wheelers (long time ago I added the Drummond 3rd layer to 2 spare Ratio 3rds with new ends, roofs etc.
These are just inevitable compromises which will not stop them popping up in many guises. Hornby seems to have done the dirty on Hattons here, but there is probably room for both, if they are not both limiting themselves to GWR versions.
The Caledonian versions will move up the list once the Rails/ Bachmann 812 hits the market.

Dave L
Mike 1
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Mike 1 »

Wolverton did use a very similar "toplight" style panelling, but long after they had stopped building 6-wheeled carriages. Changing the commode handles would make a big difference, and lowering the lower footboards too. Suspect drilling out the roof for gas lamps and vents would probably not be difficult and more appropriate than the oil lamps moulded on.

Mike
RossB
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by RossB »

After looking through some pictures of the models I picked up a Hornby 6 wheel third in LNWR livery to see what could be done with it. The livery is quite nicely applied but the colour is far too maroon to be LNWR. It actually appears to be the same shade they used for the CR style coaches in the re-issued Tri-ang Caley Single train pack. A couple of before and after shots below. I've since modified and refitted the lower footboards which makes a big difference to the look of the coach. While it doesn't really match any CR designs it could almost be a pre-Drummond contractor built first downgraded to a third (well, that's what I'm saying it is!).

Ross
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Jim Summers
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by Jim Summers »

Nice work and thanks for the report, Ross.
Hornby seems to have made an effort with the oil lamps and their covers.

JimS
jasp
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Post by jasp »

That is interesting re the oil lamps, the picture I saw had 4 lamps for a 5 compartment coach - maybe a prototype illustration.
Nice job Ross, how did you remove the LNWR transfers?
I could be tempted to try to adapt for P4
Jim P
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