Ebay warning

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WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

Morning all,

With the lack of local availability and lockdown combined, I do much of my modelling purchases online these days. This will affect us all.

I have been very wary of ebay for several years. I hinted at this recently in a post on Photo Clydebank Riverside building. It started when they applied 10% commission to include the postage of sales and not just the auction item. This was their way of tackling the small percentage of cheats who would list an item such as a laptop at £1 with £299 P+P to avoid paying Final Value Fees. Obviously causes problems with returns too. But instead of tackling the cheats they apply 10% to everything and everybody, I feel this is very unfair to to the genuine sellers and purchasers, I question its legality and it can only increase prices. It has caused a lot of ill-feeling but its making Ebay a huge profit.

It was not too long after this that they started the occasional £1 FVF offers which I suspect was the result of falling listings caused by the 10% thing. But of course it encouraged people to only list items with a £1 FVF. Talk about Ebay shooting themselves in the foot. So then they introduce a compulsory automatic relisting feature if an item doesnt sell, but the relist doesnt qualify for the £1 FVF. And apparently they feel that it is "abuse" if people end unsold listings and relist them at the next £1 FVF and issue warnings or worse.

Ebay is riddled with fake goods and repros which they distance themselves from by placing responsibility with the seller and seem to do little if fake goods are reported.
Its no wonder that some people will try to deal off ebay directly with each other. What can be safer than physically seeing an item and working out a cash price? But ebay tell you this is not a safe practise and that the items dont qualify for ebay Buyers/sellers protection. But I feel all they are bothered about is their 10% but try to convince their customers otherwise. Instead of levying a 10% charge to offenders they send out threats and warnings to their customers.

Ebay has been a trail of similar disasters for several years and they seem to treat their customers with complete disdain. But over the weekend ebay has crashed in UK and Europe big style. I have won a couple of auctions but been unable to pay for items as no Pay Now button appeared nor email received for around 2 hours. I have received an email from one of those sellers this morning telling my that the item, and all his other sales that day, is flagged as being paid but the money is not in his Paypal account. Apparently he has to link his bank account to receive the money. But they havent given him prior notice.
So here is the reason for this post, Ebay are quietly cutting out usage of Paypal without telling their customers. Sellers will receive proceeds straight into their linked bank accounts, no option to use Paypal. They are hiking their commission to 13% to compensate for the loss of 2.9% Paypal take. But unbelievably if an item is paid for in cash or by cheque etc, ebay are still applying that 13%.
My ebay account has been hacked several times despite all possible precautions. I have had attempted access to my Paypal account from an unrecognised device too and for that reason dont keep any money in it at all. To sign into Paypal, full password has to be typed in which is a risk. For the odd item I sell, I remove the proceeds immediately and change the password regularly. I dont link ebay and Paypal at all. If anyone hacks into your ebay they have automatic access to buy and pay for items using your money, they just change the postal address.

I personally, when I am forced to link my bank account to ebay to receive proceeds from sales, will open a bank account for this specific purpose, keep no money in it and only use it for this purpose. My main bank account and any balance will thus remain separate and safe.
Imagine the hassle and disruption if your salary, pension, standing orders and direct debits all had to be changed............

P.
northcroft62
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:45 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by northcroft62 »

Many thanks for this information i was not aware of this.

Donald Campbell
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by Jim Summers »

I think we are all indebted to Paul for alerting us to this.
Sad that our leisure interests have to be sullied by these commercial aspects of day-to-day life, but we cannot always keep them separate.

JimS
caleyJim
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by caleyJim »

eBay and PayPal separated as companies quite some time ago. Last year eBay began moving to 'Managed Payments' cutting out PayPal but hiking fees in the process although I must admit that I was given fair warning (but no choice). I now sell only a few castings as regular listings, more for the advertising effect than anything else. Caley Coaches kits are now available only via www.caley.com.

Not sure what happened at the weekend - I was selling at auction an LSWR coach (don't ask!) which ended on Sunday evening. At the conclusion it appeared to be unsold on eBay even though there had been bids. The matter eventually resolved at about 3am on Monday with both me and the buyer getting the correct emails.
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

I still havent received any official notification about Managed Payments although some people have received emails, but every time ebay has a major change like this, it ends up a disaster as per last weekend. Its a story repeated over and over, for a National and multi-national company, they are not terribly professional. I dont think their IT people are up to the job.

I would strongly recommend using a specific bank account for ebay sales and keep it empty, to protect your main account . It adds a link to the chain and stops hackers and scammers.

Ive found this on the net tonight.

https://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/selling ... tgroup=C2C

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/fee ... es?id=4822
Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

As this will be a large loss of revenue to Paypal, maybe they will get a sort code so a Paypal account can look like a bank account?

Likely to suffer double fees if that happens though

Bill
caleyJim
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by caleyJim »

BTW: Meant to mention last week that the eBay 'Managed Payments' process is fundamentally flawed. eBay takes the money for your sales, deducts commission and passes the balance on either a daily or weekly basis to your bank account. Fair enough so far if we ignore the level the commission BUT you need to fund the postage from somewhere else (e.g. PayPal :D ). You cannot pay postage from the money received into eBay. Don't know who thought that one out - I have complained long and loud but got nowhere beyond the usual banalities.

Jim
David Thorpe
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by David Thorpe »

WCML55.68 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:50 am Its no wonder that some people will try to deal off ebay directly with each other. What can be safer than physically seeing an item and working out a cash price? But ebay tell you this is not a safe practise and that the items dont qualify for ebay Buyers/sellers protection. But I feel all they are bothered about is their 10% but try to convince their customers otherwise. Instead of levying a 10% charge to offenders they send out threats and warnings to their customers..............Ebay are quietly cutting out usage of Paypal without telling their customers. Sellers will receive proceeds straight into their linked bank accounts, no option to use Paypal. They are hiking their commission to 13% to compensate for the loss of 2.9% Paypal take. But unbelievably if an item is paid for in cash or by cheque etc, ebay are still applying that 13%.
My ebay account has been hacked several times despite all possible precautions. I have had attempted access to my Paypal account from an unrecognised device too and for that reason dont keep any money in it at all.
I really don't think that these complaints are justified.

Commission? OK, ebay charge the seller a total of 13%. The buyer pays nothing. Compare that with a conventional auction house which will, of course, have nothing like ebay's international reach. Standard fees seem to be a minimum of 15% + VAT to the seller, and a further 20% (at least) + VAT to the purchaser. Added to these may be printed catalogue fees, a lotting fee, and insurance.

And of course ebay don't want people to deal directly off ebay directly with each other. If ebay "advertises" the goods, and the buyer finds them through ebay, surely ebay is entitled to a fee? It strikes me as utterly unreasonable to suggest they aren't. And it isn't safe buying direct in this way. What if you pay and receive nothing, or damaged or the wrong goods? What if the buyer's cheque bounces? No protection whatever. Buy through ebay and you do have protection.

Finally, I may have been lucky, but in all my years of dealing with ebay and PayPal I have never (touch wood) had either account hacked. I do however frequently read of people who have had their conventional bank accounts hacked or been the victim of fraudulent dealings through their bank account.

DT
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

caleyJim wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:21 pm BTW: Meant to mention last week that the eBay 'Managed Payments' process is fundamentally flawed. eBay takes the money for your sales, deducts commission and passes the balance on either a daily or weekly basis to your bank account. Fair enough so far if we ignore the level the commission BUT you need to fund the postage from somewhere else (e.g. PayPal :D ). You cannot pay postage from the money received into eBay. Don't know who thought that one out - I have complained long and loud but got nowhere beyond the usual banalities.

Jim
Hello Jim,

That sounds about par for ebay, poorly thought out. Instead of getting fundamentals right, they seem to spend more time simply rewording emails trying to make them look exciting. If one does sell an item, does one withhold despatch until the ebay hold is cleared and the cash is in ones bank account?

Ive just received yet another email offering a 15%-off voucher but all the listings in that email dont qualify, downright misleading. If the parent company act like this, then the huge number of scammers is hardly surprising ......

P.
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

David Thorpe wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:49 am
WCML55.68 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:50 am Its no wonder that some people will try to deal off ebay directly with each other. What can be safer than physically seeing an item and working out a cash price? But ebay tell you this is not a safe practise and that the items dont qualify for ebay Buyers/sellers protection. But I feel all they are bothered about is their 10% but try to convince their customers otherwise. Instead of levying a 10% charge to offenders they send out threats and warnings to their customers..............Ebay are quietly cutting out usage of Paypal without telling their customers. Sellers will receive proceeds straight into their linked bank accounts, no option to use Paypal. They are hiking their commission to 13% to compensate for the loss of 2.9% Paypal take. But unbelievably if an item is paid for in cash or by cheque etc, ebay are still applying that 13%.
My ebay account has been hacked several times despite all possible precautions. I have had attempted access to my Paypal account from an unrecognised device too and for that reason dont keep any money in it at all.
I really don't think that these complaints are justified.

Commission? OK, ebay charge the seller a total of 13%. The buyer pays nothing. Compare that with a conventional auction house which will, of course, have nothing like ebay's international reach. Standard fees seem to be a minimum of 15% + VAT to the seller, and a further 20% (at least) + VAT to the purchaser. Added to these may be printed catalogue fees, a lotting fee, and insurance.

And of course ebay don't want people to deal directly off ebay directly with each other. If ebay "advertises" the goods, and the buyer finds them through ebay, surely ebay is entitled to a fee? It strikes me as utterly unreasonable to suggest they aren't. And it isn't safe buying direct in this way. What if you pay and receive nothing, or damaged or the wrong goods? What if the buyer's cheque bounces? No protection whatever. Buy through ebay and you do have protection.

Finally, I may have been lucky, but in all my years of dealing with ebay and PayPal I have never (touch wood) had either account hacked. I do however frequently read of people who have had their conventional bank accounts hacked or been the victim of fraudulent dealings through their bank account.

DT
Hello David,

The original intention was to heighten awareness of the dangers of ebay and specifically of linking your bank account to them. I am sure that this has now been achieved.

We can only speak of our own personal experiences with ebay.

I think you may have somewhat misinterpreted my post regarding off-ebay sales which is borne out of experience and resultant mistrust specifically owing to the huge number of high-value fakes, repros and those deceitfully selling repros as genuine especially relating to road and railwayana.
I am sure many Crassochists will be fully aware of this.
Add this to all the scamming and hacking and the poorly run organisation, witness all the regular major crashes and other major problems – some technical, it makes ebay a potentially perilous place and leads to much distrust. The sheer percentage of rogue traders makes one much more alert.
One really has to do ones homework to say safe and before any purchase through ebay.
Whilst there are many genuine traders and even some bargains to be found, there are still many pitfalls and extreme vigilance is required at all times.

I totally agree that if a buyer and seller are brought together through and conclude a sale for something advertised on ebays platform, ebay deserve their take. Otherwise it would be akin to working for someone or providing a service and and not getting paid.
So why did ebay not originally say that instead of beating about the bush and try and blame it on not being safe nor being covered by ebays guarantees.....and sending out threats and warnings to their customers? Hardly good for customer relations.
But there are instances when something one discovers is local, or is so desirable one will travel, BUT if anybody wishes to actually see the goods in person to ensure they are genuine, be happy and mutually agree a price before committing to purchase, there should be a way to do this and for the seller to “end listing and pay ebay fees” to keep things above board, but as far as I am aware there never has been.
I wouldnt entertain distance purchase for anything, especially high-value items, outside of ebay, as you say theres no protection. But an arranged meet, inspect goods, agree price, is there a safer way?

I see that ebay have now actually introduced an automatic penalty 13% commission on any such off-ebay deals. Thats what they should have done in the first place, they get their take and their customers dont get threatened. It would make sellers and buyers fully aware of the situation without any further action and ill-feeling. I wouldnt be averse to an increase on this penalty to encourage errant sellers to pay ebay fees but there should be a choice to “end listing and pay ebay fees” but there is none.

Unlike most Railwayana auction houses who treasure their reputations, anything road or railwayana cast aluminium, cast iron, cast brass, some very effectively “patinated”, anything antique or highly collectable, ebay is riddled with fake and repro goods and the best if not the only way of not falling into this trap as far as railwayana is concerned is to physically see the goods. But ebay are completely out of touch, another example of their poor management..

Similarly even everyday relatively low-value household items are not immune, eg perfume and LED bulbs - the list is endless - are faked or are sometimes cheap unsafe fake imports. There are many pickings to be made.
Indeed I have recently purchased a Mitutoyo digital caliper.
Ebay was full of fakes with many dodgy looking sellers which led to the deeply disturbing situation where one might be paying full price for a fake........ so, after a lot of hard work and research trying to distinguish the fakes from the genuine, purchase was NOT through ebay but direct from the importers via Paypal!! It was somewhat cheaper than what I though was the lowest priced genuine one on ebay and the Paypal payment still ensures a degree of safety.
Just have a look at all the Mitutoyo fakes on ebay ….......
Also a recent attempt to purchase some D-Limonene through ebay has floundered, ordered and paid for, “despatched” and tracking number added but it never seemed to be in transit, never came, seller consistently asked me to wait blaming RM for slow delivery, eventually promised to investigate RM and refund, never did, ebay intervened and refunded. Still havent got any D-Limonene.
Two not particularly out of the ordinary purchases and we are only just into March.

Whilst ebay are naturally entitled to charge a commission and yes this is less than an auction house and only applicable to sellers, I and a lot of others still feel that is is very unfair to apply this commission to the P+P attached to sold listings, especially in view of the reason why. Also an average auction house (all the ones I have dealt with are indeed on the internet and will have a similar potential to ebay) will deal with maybe 500-1000 lots every 2 or 3 months in a specific collectors field, ebay is constantly ongoing in everything. Their take on this turnover must be staggering and far far in excess compared. Its a totally different scenario.

As far as the Paypal split is concerned, I for one still have not been officially informed about it yet and would have never known but for the major crash that weekend.
I do hope this huge loss of revenue to Paypal will not precipitate its demise as many traders use Paypal on their own websites when dealing direct with the public.
Similarly when they introduced the ebay reference number as a line in the postal address a year or so ago, I noticed it on my deliveries and I contacted my first few purchasers asking what it was as my research in ebays guidelines failed, the answer unanimously was “we dont know, miss it out”. Do you know? And have you ever checked to see if your accounts have been hacked? Over the years, I have had two Paypal unauthorised attempted access following two purchases of small items from China and several ebay hacks. I suppose it might depend and what you buy/sell and its value but it usually involves changing contact and payment details, thus any monies are diverted or an unauthorised purchase being made, using your money and sent to an address other than yours.
I suppose hacking is commonplace wherever but surely banks use the highest possible level? I personally have not experienced any problems with my banks, touch wood likewise, but even before the current much higher levels of security, never had to type in full password to access bank.

Like any other business, ebay exist to make a profit. (Its why our railways should never have been privatised..........)
On the other hand, its customers want their hard-earned cash to go as far as possible, to get the best quality from the best seller at the least possible price. Its human nature. But they should be able to make their choices in the way they purchase, and sell, items, not in the way ebay want them to do.
Sign in to Paypal, there's two options, “remember me” or “maybe later”. There should be a third option “never”. But ebay always wanted you to link to Paypal to make checkout easier, despite the high risk. Now they force you to link your bank account ….....................

As far as I'm concerned, I still believe that ebay is a very poorly run concern with great potential risk and there is no way I would recommend linking main bank account to ebay account.
Theres too much at stake.

P
caleyJim
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by caleyJim »

caleyJim wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:28 am eBay and PayPal separated as companies quite some time ago.
Just to clarify: PayPal was set up by Elon Musk and others and bought in 2002 by eBay for $1.5 Billion. They then spun it off again as a separate company in 2015. Currently eBay has a market capitalisation of about $35 Billion while PayPal's market cap. is about $290 Billion. So
  • I don't think the board of PayPal will be losing much sleep over the loss of eBay revenue
  • It certainly makes the traditional auction houses look like small beer - Christie Group has a market cap. of about £27 Million
Folk seem to be quoting 13% commision for eBay. Perhaps that is what private sellers pay. As a business I am currently paying 5p + 15% for small items and that is a special offer. There are also monthly listing fees. On the monthly reports I get eBay's percentage take on my sales is always well north of 20%.

Jim
David Thorpe
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by David Thorpe »

Difficult to see why you're paying that much - as a registered business seller you should be charged a little less than a private seller. Ebay's business fees are set out at https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/fee ... rs?id=4122 and that suggests that as a business seller you shouldn't be paying more than about 9% plus the listing fee. There are a number of "enhancing" add-ons which can push the price up and i wonder if you have any of these.

DT
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

Yes, c13% as private seller. It was 10% ebay and 2.9% Paypal.

Gosh that is a staggering turnover, one would think that such a huge company should be able to run their business without without the constant major crashes and other major problems that seems to be the norm, hence the warning not to link ones main bank account to them.
Craig
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:27 am

Re: Ebay warning

Post by Craig »

Two-Factor Authentication

If you are concerned about hacking of your eBay account, I'd suggest enabling two-factor authentication.
There is an article on this at: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Getting-S ... p/27465876

I'm not sure the links in the article work anymore, but when you are logged into eBay:
1. Go to "Hello <your name>" at the top left.
2. Account Settings
3. Sign-in and Security
4. Click "Edit" for 2-step verification

Whilst text messages have issues, this should protect from many hacking attempts. There is also the eBay app, though I haven't used this.

Craig
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Ebay warning

Post by WCML55.68 »

Many thanks for that Craig, already done which seems to have cured the problem. Also "trusting this device" is an added security. But these hackers are very clever!

P.
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