Water Crane

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
Post Reply
theparley
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:11 am

Water Crane

Post by theparley »

Mike's Models produced a platform mounted Caledonian Water Crane, Catalogue no.39.
1) Did they, or anyone else, make a Caley floor mounted example ?
2) Assuming a negative answer to my question, what alternatives exist; LMS, LNER or a conversion of Mike's Cat. No.39 ?
Douglas Teenan
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by Jim Summers »

Douglas,
I can't help with platform mounted water cranes, but it gives me an excuse to attach original sketches and the final drawing of Lockerbie. These were by the late Richard Chown and are in the Association archives.

JimS
Water Column by RChown compressed .jpg
Water Column by RChown compressed .jpg (21.76 KiB) Viewed 1758 times
Lockerbie Up #1 reduced .jpg
Lockerbie Up #1 reduced .jpg (45.92 KiB) Viewed 1758 times
Lockerbie and Carstairs Down #1  valve reduced  .jpg
Lockerbie and Carstairs Down #1 valve reduced .jpg (48.21 KiB) Viewed 1758 times
Carstairs reduced  .jpg
Carstairs reduced .jpg (42.74 KiB) Viewed 1758 times
Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by Alan K »

Hi Douglas

Your information is incorrect: No.39 is the floor-mounted version!
20210328_143302.jpg
20210328_143302.jpg (11.54 KiB) Viewed 1706 times
With minimal 'refinement' it makes a pretty representation of a Caley water crane. Mine is installed, but lacks the hose as I haven't got round to finding a better alternative to what comes with it (which is the only thing that lets it down in my opinion)

Alan
theparley
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:11 am

Re: Water Crane

Post by theparley »

Thank you all for your replies. I can now make progress. Agreed, the hose is a problem. I found a scrap of lightweight black electrical insulation cable in my "electrical" box; too short however to be of any use. It was flat, about 4mm across and had previously protected two wires feeding a table lamp or some such. It would be a bit inflexible but might be an answer in the absence of anything else. That said, if kept flat, insulating tape wrapped round some stranded wire might be another option.
Douglas Teenan
jasp
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by jasp »

A piece of (black) heat shrink sleeving, suitably weathered, provides a reasonable representation.
Jim P
theparley
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:11 am

Re: Water Crane

Post by theparley »

A great idea. Thank you, Jim
Dave Lochrie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Hi Douglas,

I originally drafted this on Sunday morning but ran into problems uploading the supporting pics, and Alan beat me to the big relaxation.
I thought that your mention of platform mounted must be wrong and had to go back and check the Mike's Models description and sure enough it is labled as "platform mounted".
Except that it isn't, the Mikes model is actually the later standard design for a floor mounted water column. This is a biggish subject but prior to this standard design the Northern Section used a design fairly similar the the Highland Railway, and the Sourthern and Eastern Section used a design identical to the LNWR standard design (not too surprisingly), and both these types survived into LMS days, so it will depend on where your layout is based and to some extent when is was supposedly built. The Mikes Models "kit' is a safe bet anywhere and was unique to the Caledonian. I change the water bag for something fabricated from wide masking tape wrapped around a length of cable and you can upgrade the handle on the valve with something a bit more delicate, but otherwise it is still a good model.

If you think about the standard design (as per Mikes) it would need to be adjacent to the track, whereas, even pre-H&S, platform mounted cranes need to be set back from the platform edge and tend to have a longer swivel arm (thus the distinction betwwen a column and a crane).

I no-longer seem to be able to "place" images within the text, so they are attached below.

I obviously selected the image of No905 sitting between a pair of columns to confirm the floor mounted position but also to stir-up a discussion on colour scheme. Charles Underhill gave the colour of water columns (and most other metal structures) as red oxide but the light over dark scheme was fairly common (duck's foot over purple brown seems logical but what about 2 blues?) though not always with the promenant dividing line. I think 905 is at Ferryhill. If so there is no logical reason why these should have been so elaborate so far from public gaze. I have several images of the South end of Larbert station both taken pre-1914 which show the same column in plain and 2-colour finish.

Dave L
Attachments
CR No 905 Ferryhill.jpg
CR No 905 Ferryhill.jpg (76.13 KiB) Viewed 1641 times
CR Std Water Column.jpg
CR Std Water Column.jpg (40.07 KiB) Viewed 1641 times
lindsay_g
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by lindsay_g »

Unfortunately the image below is rather shot in profile but it does give a good idea of what surrounded it at ground level.

Lindsay
Bridge of Dun.jpg
Bridge of Dun.jpg (206.57 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
theparley
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:11 am

Re: Water Crane

Post by theparley »

Dave,
Thank you for your comprehensive and informative post. The phototographs too are helpful.
In operational terms, a ground-mounted water column at the end of the platform ramp would mean that a passenger engine requiring water would either have to stop opposite the column (causing any alighting passengers in the leading coach to move back down the train) or, “shuffle” up to the column once all the doors were shut. I don’t know what the rules said on the matter.
On my layout, I scratch-built lamp huts at the bottom of the ramps, which I thought made passenger safety sense. I can place the water column behind these which would give a handy supply of dousing water if the need were to arise.
My layout is a banking station in Dumfriesshire with operational similarities to Beattock. I convinced myself that the infrastructure didn’t change the from the original through to the 1960s plus. This allowed me to run trains from different periods, just so long as a Caley goods didn’t pass through the station at the same time as, say an LMS post-war passenger train (or worse).
We have William Tite (?) villa-style station building at Greenloaning. Had the station not been closed, I am sure it would still be being used by the present-day authorities. Straying well off topic, the station building is currently the subject of a Historic Environment Scotland consultation in response to a Network Rail demolition proposal. There is also the signal box which I believe houses an original frame. I was given a third-party report that heavy “things” (a wonderfully descriptive term) were being taken into either the station building or the box. There was also the insertion of a heavy red (?) cable. I alerted Jim Summers on these matters over the last Christmas period.
Another, but separate, third-party report is that Network Rail have conducted interviews for a position in the signal box. Yes, your guess as to what that entails is as good as mine.
Re the colour, I like the duck leg yellow option; much more visible at night. I have attached a colour photograph, but perhaps its yellow is a bit on the dark side. As I draft this, I'm not sure if the photograph will display. If not try clicking on the attachment link.
Lindsay,
Thank you for the photograph. It adds nicely to the information.

Douglas Teenan
7WNRRCTHIOTCHSLWMSROL4O2WM.jpg
7WNRRCTHIOTCHSLWMSROL4O2WM.jpg (55.64 KiB) Viewed 1607 times
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Water Crane - and Greenloaning

Post by Jim Summers »

Since Douglas mentions Greenloaning, maybe I should point out that the frame in the signalbox is the last Caledonian Stevens one.

Network Rail, which is not staffed by vandals, understands that and steps have been taken to ensure that the re-signalling is connected to the box with minimal consequences to the frame. It is hoped that the frame will be preserved when no longer needed. It is however still needed with matching signalman to increase capacity for the more intense train service. That of course has not run because of Covid, but one hopes it eventually will, and of course more freight traffic is on the cards.

Resignalling work between Dunblane and Perth is in hand as part of the overall plans for Scotland and the UK, which are pretty generally known. That will facilitate electrification of the route, which is also generally known to be an early wish of Transport Scotland.

The Association did indeed make a submission in regard to the station house. While keen to see it remain we could not wholeheartedly advocate absolute retention if modern railway operations required changes, there being other Scottish Central buildings still in existence.

Getting back to water columns and cranes, at least one foreign company insisted that if watering was necessary in the course of working a passenger train, the locomotive was to be uncoupled and run forward for watering. This would spare passengers a rough stop when the driver endeavoured to stop precisely at a narrow water column. Customer service is not a new concept.

JimS
[email protected]
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:34 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by [email protected] »

Sorry, i have been rather tardy in getting involved in this discussion. As some of you will know, I am currently building a 4mm scale model of 61B Aberdeen Ferryhill, as it was in the late 1950's. I bought 6 water cranes from Mike's models a number of years ago, which i realised would need to be modified in order to replicate those at 61B.
Ferryhill water cranes.jpg
Ferryhill water cranes.jpg (51.73 KiB) Viewed 866 times
I have a friend in Christchurch NZ who is rather a dab hand with 3D printing, so after sending him a copy of the attached picture, together with some dimensions, he produced the "S" bend pipe with the "bag" attached. I am currently painting these for positioning on the model, as per the second picture. Only negative is that the bags can't be moved, to simulate the taking of water for example.

The "T" handle was replaced at Ferryhill with a wheel at some stage, and I will modify mine accordingly once i find a suitably dimensioned wheel.

Should others require, I am happy to put you in touch with Lawrence of NZ Finescale.

Mike
New Zealand
Ferryhill water cranes.jpg
Ferryhill water cranes.jpg (51.73 KiB) Viewed 866 times
Attachments
20210729_145638.jpg
20210729_145638.jpg (50.69 KiB) Viewed 866 times
[email protected]
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:34 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by [email protected] »

Oh, and as an aside the picture of the CR 905 seen earlier in this thread was definitely taken at Ferryhill, before the "S" bend was added, presumably to make it easier to water high sided tenders.

Mike Yeoman
New Zealand
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Water Crane

Post by Jim Summers »

Impressive, Mike.
The achievements of some skilled people with 3D printing continue to leave me open-mouthed.

JimS
Post Reply