4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
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jim mac
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:20 pm

4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by jim mac »

You may be interested in the exchange between John Redrup (London Road Models) and myself. Can we identify an engine which could be coupled to the already available tender.
John
We talked briefly at Leatherhead about a GA for the CR 80Class Coast Bogie. I have been through the lists of all the surviving drawings in NRM, Edinburgh, our own Archive and have been unable to find anything resembling a GA. This absence may explain why your previous requests appeared to go unanswered.
Is there an other CR Class which could be of interest?
Best regards, Jim MacIntosh

Hi Jim,
Many thanks for your time and effort, It is a shame that you have been unable to find a GA, I really did quite fancy a Coast Bogie.
I think I must have told you that it was the late Duncan Burton who persuaded me to do a Caley loco. The plan was, that he found two locos which used the same boiler fittings and tender. Obviously this makes the second kit that much cheaper and quicker to do, about half the time and costs. The two locos were 123 and the coast bogie. I have always assumed from his proposal that he had GAs for both locos, what he actually said was that he had enough information for both. I wonder where that "information" went. Alas we will probably never know. I have to say, even after the passing of all these years since we lost Duncan, he was a real gentleman, and such a pleasure to work with.
Now! do you have a suggestion for another loco? remembering I have the 123 fittings and tender, what would you suggest, that we can find a GA for.
Regards John.
jim mac
dumb buffer
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by dumb buffer »

I notice that Campbell Cornwell in "40 years of Caledonian Locomotives" notes that there is photographic evidence that these tenders were fitted to the express 4-4-0's of 1884-6, probably in 1889. That would be a nice kit! But I don't know about a GA drawing -- there is mention in the list of drawings at York of a Full Side Elevation -- not the same thing as a GA.

Allan F
Jim Summers
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Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by Jim Summers »

I would be sorry to see the chance of an 80 Class go.

I have the Willie Stewart drawing, which the Association sells as No. 32, and it states (as always) "scaled from GA drawing".
So he had access to something.

That said, what about offering John Redrup a copy of our drawing No.32 and asking if that is any good to him? I would be happy enough to scratchbuild a model from that drawing (and indeed planned to do so - I even have the wheels).

Jim S
jim mac
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by jim mac »

Apologies, my earlier search missed a drawing source; The Engineer, 13 April 1888 has detailed drawings (almost GAs) of the engine but not the tender,
I will get copies to John Redrup for his approval.
The periodical also gives details of the Duplex whistle, which Drummond fitted to this class and would be a challenge for modellers to reproduce. (see article in TTL101) The illustration of the Class in The Engineer, 6 January 1888 shows it to have the extra Drummond lining on the boiler bands.

jim mac
Dave Lochrie
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by Dave Lochrie »

I was just discussing Jim Macs original posting with Tony Brenchley, who paid me a visit on Saturday, and Tony also confirmed that Willie always worked from GAs (which is why the Lambie 211 is absent from his coverage of Caledonian Locomotives, and the resources of the association were unable to locate a GA in response to a query I made last year).
None of this will actually confirm existence of a GA, merely hinting that it probably exists somewhere. Tony also mentioned that the late Peter James had produced a drawing from an 80 GA in his collection, which would now be with Niall Ferguson, if still in existence. Tony will check on this when back in Norwich, as I do not have a copy of this, but the quality of Peter's work would provide a useful starting point, in itself

I will also check with John Boyle, as a Class 80 was on his potential 7mm kits list, though no Coast Bogie GA's were present when Tony and I, catalogued John's drawing collection in 2006.

I'm agree with Jim that this would be a missed opportunity, and we have a manufacturer, who has been resolutely pursuing this potential kit over quite a few years.

Dave
Last edited by Dave Lochrie on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jim mac
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by jim mac »

I have now agreed to send The Engineer drawing to John Redrup as a high resolution file as he feels it may be sufficiently detailed for his draughtsman to produce the artwork; therefore the Class 80 project may well be back on track. As the currently available tender was also coupled to some Jumbos and Class 66 engines during their service lives these may be suitable future projects if a demand exists.

The other key aspect raised by David's post is copies of drawings held by members. Now that we have an extensive and still developing and fully catalogued Archive, can I make a plea to all members to make their collections available. If you are unable to release the drawings permanently, please consider a loan to allow them to be scanned and added to the catalogue.
jim mac
Alan K
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Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by Alan K »

jim mac wrote: The other key aspect raised by David's post is copies of drawings held by members. Now that we have an extensive and still developing and fully catalogued Archive, can I make a plea to all members to make their collections available. If you are unable to release the drawings permanently, please consider a loan to allow them to be scanned and added to the catalogue.
jim mac
Perhaps this should be the subject of a dedicated topic.
I have a copy of a St Rollox GA drawing of a 262 Class 0-4-0 ST which I got from the late Mike Gilgannon. Would that already be in the CRA collection? Incidentally I passed this on to Andy Mullins (the then owner of Branchlines) and he used it to develop the kit mentioned by Dave Lochrie in the 'Modelling the Caledonian' thread.

Alan K
tony brenchley
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by tony brenchley »

Following my visit to Dave Lochrie mentioned in his note I checked my files but I don't have a copy of Peter James's drawing for the Coast Bogie. Peter built a very nice EM gauge model from his drawing. I wonder where this is now.

John Boyle says he has done a 12mm to the foot scale drawing of the Coast Bogie preparatory to doing etching drawings for a 7mm scale kit. He says he used a GA as the basis but can't remember where it came from and he can't lay his hands on it immediately as all his drawing files are still at his old house in Charlton Kings. He is hoping to retrieve these this weekend but it will take him some time to sort it all out. He is arranging to send John Redrup a copy of the 12mm drawing that somebody else has but Jim Mac has probably up-staged him with the discovery of the Engineer drawings.

I would agree with the suggestion that we start another thread with details of what GA and similar quality drawings we all have. This will be useful for us modellers but the CRA ought to know what we have as part of the Archive. I will end the old thread with a note of what I have.

I have a full size copies of the Dubs GAs for engine and tender for the Oban Bogie. These are in black and white but obviously the originals are coloured in water colours. I got these from the Mitchell Library in the early 1970s. Willie Stewart used them for his drawing that appeared in the Railway Modeller in March 1974 and I expect this is also the drawing that is included in the CRA drawing list although I haven't checked.

John Boyle recently got a copy of the Caledonian Railway GA (St Rollox 11304) for the Oban Bogie engine only from the NRM. This appears to be the same drawing as mine without the water colours but the Caledonian Railway title has been added and the Dubs title is in a diffferent place. Presumably the Caley Drawing office had to re-draw or trace it in those days. My Dubs GA will finish up in the CRA Archive eventually but I still have one model to finish and another to start before I do this!

Also I have original copies of drawings that appeasred as Engineer supplements for the Pickersgill Oban Bogie and 903 class. These are engine only. These could go to the CRA Archive now as I don't have any planned use for them. If they are wanted should these go to to Jim Mac?

Tony B

Tony B
jim mac
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: 4mm Locomotive, a potential new kit

Post by jim mac »

Alan K wrote:I have a copy of a St Rollox GA drawing of a 262 Class 0-4-0 ST which I got from the late Mike Gilgannon. Would that already be in the CRA collection? Incidentally I passed this on to Andy Mullins (the then owner of Branchlines) and he used it to develop the kit mentioned by Dave Lochrie in the 'Modelling the Caledonian' thread.
tony brenchley wrote:Also I have original copies of drawings that appeasred as Engineer supplements for the Pickersgill Oban Bogie and 903 class. These are engine only. These could go to the CRA Archive now as I don't have any planned use for them. If they are wanted should these go to to Jim Mac?
Any contributions for the Archive which will require to be posted should be sent to me in Harrogate (full address on page 3 of TTL). If however you are close enough to hand them in to Thurso Street, please mark them for my attention and send me confirmation that they have been deposited. By either route they will be added to the Archive Collection, but will not show on the Catalogue until it is next updated.

jim mac
tony brenchley
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Classes 903 and 191 Drawings

Post by tony brenchley »

Further to ny note about the engine drawings I successfully scanned and sent copies of the class 903 and 191 engine drawings to a Forum member. These drawings are scanned into 3 sections for the 903 and 5 for the 191 to allow for folds in the originals and the fact that my scanner only copes with material up to A4 size. The files are large 2-3 MB but obviously my comp[uter can cope with sending them. If anybody else would like copies please let me know and we will give it a try.

Tony B
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