Boiler wagon help

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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Alan K
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:31 pm

Having completed my boilerworks, I now need to build some wagons for despatching the product! The ones I'm looking at are the Diagram 124 and the Diagram 114, as there is photographic evidence that both were used to transport boilers. According to the Wagon Book (p129) they shared the same steel underframe, so the CRA drawing (no.27) of the D114 wagon will be invaluable. But it doesn't show the short reinforcing truss which features in the pictures of both wagons, and the drawing doesn't seem to show oil boxes. I can probably work out the dimensions of the truss by proportion off the photos, but are there any 'straight on' photos which would make life easier?
The D124 looks a gift for a lazy modeller like me as it has only 2 planks and no doors! I can understand the reason for the strapping to allow fitting the securing chain shackles, but I'm puzzled about the plate with 12 bolts which seems to be asymmetrically placed on the side. If it's just to hold and reinforce the planking, why isn't it in the middle of the length, or does it have another purpose? Is there a bolster inside which can't be seen, and this plate fixes it in place? Or is there a shortage of long timber (27ft) and this plate holds the joint together - but then why wouldn't it be in the middle?

Alan
Last edited by Alan K on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jim mac
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by jim mac » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:17 am

Alan
TTL142 should be with you any day soon and has a photograph which might help set the scene for your boiler works!
jim mac

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:56 pm

Alan, your post came nicely in time for me to consult the GA drawing at the NRM today. The truss rods are 1.25in diameter and the verticals are pitched at 9 ft centres. The horizontal member is 6in below the solebar. The GA shows ordinary single ironwork, so what the triple width stuff is I don't know. There were shackles on the inside of the body, at the same centres as the axles - see examples on p224 of the wagon book.

Best

Mike

Alan K
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:57 pm

Thanks Mike. Impeccable timing: I've just started construction!
I have a supplementary question re Diagram 26 Boiler Wagon. Your comments in the book suggest that none were actually built, but this appears to contradict what appears on the CRA drawing for D26. Two running numbers (16 & 17) are quoted, as is a photo reference ('SRO collection or HMRS V2712')! Maybe 16 and 17 were actually Diagram 27, the Machinery Wagon equivalent? I thought I might have a go at this one for some variety, but not if it never existed!

Regards
Alan

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:40 am

But there aren't any photos of 16 or 17 in SRO (which is a reference to the 1900 Album of photos), Alan. There are photos of the two 6-wheeled versions and one of the Diagram 27 4-wheelers. It may be that the floor boards on Diagram 27 were loose rather than fitted, so all you had to do to get Diagram 26 was to remove them. Modelling all the underframe members and sorting invisible suspension for P4 may of course be your idea of fun...........

Best

Mike

Alan K
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:37 pm

Oops - wise words Mike! I really must pay attention to the plan view on these drawings when there is one.....! And also to the helpful statement in your book that 'the two designs of boiler wagons had no floors'!!
So even if nos 16 and 17 existed (can't help thinking that Messrs Boyle and Cockburn must have got the info. from somewhere) it's not really a practical proposition. I think I'm on safer ground with D124 & D114!

Alan

MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:04 pm

As Jim hinted earlier, come back on the forum when you've seen TTL142, Alan. It won't just be boiler wagons you're worrying about..................

Best

Mike

Alan K
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:42 pm

Mike and Jim
TTL142 arrived today. I see what you mean now! That's a 'Lancashire' boiler by the way, which remained a popular design because it was cheaper to build than the more efficient 'Scotch' boiler. Incidentally, there's one or possibly two of these lying in the Carrongrove Goods Yard photo on p29. Lancashire boilers were always on the cards for the output of the boilerworks. I haven't done any yet, but I can confidently say that it's going to be - how can I say it - extremely rivetting....!

Alan

Alan K
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:07 pm

Now engaged in building four Diagram 124 wagons (2 to be with loads, 2 empty), all at various stages of completion - will show pictures later.
One more question: am I right in thinking that Plate 2.30 of the Wagon Book shows a D124 wagon (in LMS days)? Is it a close-up from a larger photo which might have more detail? (says he hopefully....!) It shows 4 reinforcing angles, and I now realise that there is another angle in Plate 8.6 which is just out of shot.
I've also just noticed that the width of the legs of the angles in Plate 2.30 are not all the same, and I guess this must be to do with the available space on the buffer beam between the buffer base and the draw bar plate on each side.
Plate 2.30 shows clearly that by the time of construction, hexagonal nuts rather than square nuts were being used to attach ironwork. So for 4mm scale, this can readily be represented with round rod inserted into holes drilled into styrene, and not cubes of styrene fixed in place with MEK!

Alan

lindsay_g
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by lindsay_g » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:30 pm

Here's a boiler made for Burntisland 1883. At first I didn't relish the idea of building something that was heavily rivetted but in actual fact construction didn't take that long at all, possibly just a couple of evenings.

Starting point was an 90mm length cut from a broom handle which was then clad in plasticard sheet, various small bits of plasticard tube, rod, and sheet added then row upon row of Archer rivets laid on (those around the circular outer edge of the end were a real faff as they had to be laid on 2 at a time).

Lindsay
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jim mac
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Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by jim mac » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:07 am

Alan
Fig 2.30 is the full extent of the photograph and not a cropped version. Attached is a second photograph taken at the same time in 1959
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and a second photograph illustrating the Diagram in use for another type of traffic
CR74075.jpg
CR74075.jpg (78.94 KiB) Viewed 8683 times
jim mac

Alan K
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by Alan K » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:56 pm

Thanks Lindsay. I haven't given much thought yet as to how I'll make the boilers, but you've given me some good ideas (and encouragement!). I've got a rivet embossing tool and I thought I might be able to use that to make the many rivets needed for an overlay (either brass or maybe even styrene). I'm not enthusiastic about Archer rivets though! Incidentally I think yours is a Cornish boiler, which was the predecessor to the Lancashire (which has the 2 tubes).
Thanks for these 2 photos Jim. The one with the Portuguese wagon on board especially is a gold-mine of info! I can see 6 gussets attached to the solebar which didn't show up on Plate 8.7 in the Wagon Book, probably because of the shadow, and there is a more detailed view of the truss and the vertical fixings. I notice that wagon in the top picture has the mysterious 12 bolt plate (and it's definitely a single plate and not 4 straps fixed together) making an appearance again, but absent in the bottom picture!
So I've got a few more things to do...! Not least is how to match these massive leaf springs - I count 12 leaves (when I googled '12 leaf wagon springs', all I got was a packet of 12 (ordinary) wagon springs!!)


Alan

jasp
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Boiler wagon help

Post by jasp » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:00 pm

The bottom picture has the “Builders Hurst Nelson .....etc” superimposed on the photograph, demonstrated by the bottom of the lowest letters appearing to float in mid air! There is also the “C”, presumably from “CR” to the left of the Hurst Nelson superimposition.
Perhaps the 12 bolt plate has been obscured in the application of the superimposition.
An earl version of Photoshop?
Jim P

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