CLASS 171 Build

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by lindsay_g »

Hi Allan,

Regarding weight, yes I do have concerns over getting sufficient lead packed into this little engine especially since I need to watch where the centre of gravity is with the CSB suspension. Main worry is getting weight over the front drivers, the middle to rear of the engine isn’t a worry. I reckon I’ll be able to fit a DCC decoder between the motor and the chassis plus a bank of stay-alive capacitors and the electronic gubbins that will go with all of that. That leaves me to get a fair bit of weight within the side tanks, on the chassis, and the bunker can be filled with lead. I could even have a curved piece of lead as an interference fit into the top of the cab glued to the cab roof to keep it in place and pack lead into the rear of the toolboxes/sandboxes. However, that could be too much weight towards the rear as, at the front end, I really only have the boiler to fill with lead and whatever I might pack into the chassis, beneath the smokebox, behind the valance, and within the front sandboxes. Will be tackling that after I’ve finished detailing and adding the pick-ups.

And pick-ups bring us nicely onto controlling the side play of the bogie. I mentioned within the chassis post that sideplay restraint would be added later. I’m going to try out an idea I saw on the Scalefour Forum whereby sideplay was controlled by phosphor bronze wire that also took power from the bogie wheels onto the chassis. It sounds a good idea in principle, time will tell if it proves to kill two birds with the one stone.

Cheers,

Lindsay

P.S. the soldering isn’t so neat before I attack the excess with scrapers, files, wet and dry, and so on!
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Lindsay
Your solution for the cab grab handles is great - with that extra spigot that fits into the floor it will be much more robust than mine. For info, I found the box that my pins came in and the name of the supplier is 'Hemline', and they are 0.65 x 20mm. I'm fascinated by the uses that the humble brass pin can be put to: I've seen and used another application which involves flattening the pin head on a suitable 'anvil' (using your toffee hammer for example!) until it's lollipop shaped, and then drilling a hole in the centre of the flattened head. With a little bit of filing to the 'ring' produced, it makes a neat fixing (like a shoulderless handrail knob) with the shank of the pin soldered into a hole.
Re the Westinghouse pump, I used the Alan Gibson one which looks quite similar to yours - it might be another attempt at the same model. The method of fixing is different - on the 262, the pump bolts onto a bracket which sits on the footplate but yours is bolted onto the cab side. I think I can see the attaching bracket's 'ears' sticking out in the photos - eg to the right of the top can, and to the left of the bottom one. To my eye, the gap between the cans is bigger on the pumps in the photos, but that's just me being picky!
The other feature which the pumps from both engines share is that tee-piece containing the lubricator - I found a robust cheat for that by flattening the back of the wire and soldering on a t-shaped piece of scrap fret strengthener behind (where hopefully it can't be seen)!
Re all this talk about lead, I thought that one of the advantages of the CSB suspension method was that it didn't need all that weight - and that adding weight might defeat the purpose as it would deflect the wire suspension adversely...!

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by jimwatt2mm »

lindsay_g wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:11 pm
And pick-ups bring us nicely onto controlling the side play of the bogie. I mentioned within the chassis post that sideplay restraint would be added later. I’m going to try out an idea I saw on the Scalefour Forum whereby sideplay was controlled by phosphor bronze wire that also took power from the bogie wheels onto the chassis. It sounds a good idea in principle, time will tell if it proves to kill two birds with the one stone.
I used that method for the rear bogies on both of my 2FS 0-4-4T's (439 and 171) and it worked a treat. No reason why it shouldn't work in 4mm.

Jim W
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by lindsay_g »

Hi Alan,
Re all this talk about lead, I thought that one of the advantages of the CSB suspension method was that it didn't need all that weight - and that adding weight might defeat the purpose as it would deflect the wire suspension adversely
I can’t remember reading anything to suggest that a loco fitted with CSB’s can have less weight, but I can’t see that would be the case. What weight is there needs to distributed correctly. Whilst I’m speaking more from theory rather than bitter experience, I think I’m right in saying that regardless of whether there’s a rigid, compensated, or sprung chassis, the more weight you can get in the engine the more that engine will pull and greater likelihood of staying on the track. With all else being equal, a sprung or compensated chassis will have both more pulling power and road-holding will be improved since all wheels will make better contact with the rails. CSB’s are also meant to improve ride characteristics as well. I do hope I’m not opening up a debate here, I'm not intending to!

When it comes to CSB springing, the heavier the engine is loaded with lead the more it will compress the springs. Altho’ I’m not checking this out as I write, I think a .5mm deflection is built into things at the setting out stage. However, if the weight of the loco is different from the assessed weight, thicker or thinner gauge of wire can easily be inserted and is an accepted way of getting it right (I insert over-thick wire when building the chassis as it’s a good way of ensuring that everything is being built square rather than the springs levelling out imperfections). I think I have every gauge of steel wire (guitar strings) here from 8 thou up to 22 thou, not that they’d all be used for CSB’s (nor that I have a guitar to play).

I do hope that all makes sense!

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Hi Lindsay
I had my tongue partly in my cheek! But I think it's true to say that over the years, there has been a move away from 'packing as much lead as possible' to more subtle methods of ballasting by using compensated or CSB suspension and trying to measure axle loading so that the weight can be directed better/more specifically. But of course with a little engine like this then maybe there isn't much choice!

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing (2) Boiler Fittings

Post by lindsay_g »

BOILER FITTINGS

When it comes to this area, there are several items that I’ve failed to source and I’ve had to resort to turning them on the lathe. However, for anyone following this thread hoping to purchase an etch the possibility of producing castings is not dismissed and I’ll not be securing most such parts to the model if they can be used as masters.

Chimney
I thought I’d cracked it with the chimney as London Road Models do 2 kits of NBR engines with the same chimney design and dimensions as the 171 (all Mr Drummond). It initially looked lovely on arrival, and placed in situ it looked good at first glance, but after closer examination it became clear that it is dimensionally out all over the place. So, I got going on the lathe. Here’s the drawing, an actual chimney, mine and the LRM casting :

Chimney image courtesy of CRA, GA courtesy of Mike Williams
Chimney image courtesy of CRA, GA courtesy of Mike Williams
Chimneys compared.jpg (31.73 KiB) Viewed 15929 times

I think I’ll tweak my turning further at the bottom end – dimensions were taken from the GA but chimneys in service seem to have a steeper lower curve.

Dome

I also obtained a dome from London Road Models. It’s from their 123 kit but fits pretty well onto the 171 with just a small amount of filing (although as you’ll see from an image further down more feathering on the lower outer edges could be called for. I’ve checked out the dimensions and it’s a good option. A release handle(?) was fashioned out of thin brass sheet and will be soldered into place.

Dome.jpg
Dome.jpg (43.91 KiB) Viewed 15931 times

Whistle & Control rod
Mine came from Markits but they’re also available (and cheaper) from Caley Coaches. I’m not going to secure this in place until much later on as it is quite fragile (from past experience!). The control rod will just be a length of .3mm wire.

Here are these three items in place. Also visible are the items mentioned below :

After studying this and an image from the front, the centre handrail knob was replaced as it was lower than the others. Also the wire from the blower to the handrail was replaced with finer 8 gauge guitar wire.
After studying this and an image from the front, the centre handrail knob was replaced as it was lower than the others. Also the wire from the blower to the handrail was replaced with finer 8 gauge guitar wire.
Boiler fittings in place.jpg (52.8 KiB) Viewed 15931 times

Blower valve
Not an item that is available. Luckily, there’s a drawing of the blower valve in the Society’s Jumbo book to help with sizing. This was fashioned out of a 1.5mm thick brass section that was drilled for the control rod and location in the smokebox, filed then W&D’ed to shape. A 16BA washer was filed down to size as the fitting plate, then both items soldered into place. Sounds as if it took 10 minutes – yeh, right!

Handrail knobs & handrails
The GA only shows 2 knobs at the far ends but images of engines in service show three. The rear 2 are fixed vertically into the tank top and the one to the front is fitted vertically above the clack valve. I’ve fitted Allan Gibson Workshop items throughout – short on top of the tanks and medium above the clacks. Luckily they do form a good straight line (after some tweaking). The handrail to the right of the boiler is a length of .5mm wire – this stops just short of the cab front at the back and the smokebox at the front. The handrail to the left is .5mm x .3mm rod from Albion Alloys (available from many stockist but probably cheapest on eBay). .3mm wire connects from this rod to the blower valve (since replaced with finer 8 thou steel wire). This handrail stops at the same place at the front but goes all the way into the cab with some sort of fitting on the cab front – fashioned from just a sliver of fine electrical cable sleeve.

Clacks
Initially, I’ve fitted Markits items which are beautifully machined items (in 4 parts for a Caley loco) that look great when assembled and installed (which was a lot of fun - not!) but they are overscale and not quite the correct proportions overall. They are still fitted at present but I reckon I might replace them with cast items from London Road Models that still look overscale but are smaller overall and better detailed at the boiler plate fitting (but not otherwise – life is full of compromises) :

Clacks.jpg
Clacks.jpg (68.04 KiB) Viewed 15930 times

Sandbox fillers
I’ve turned a couple of fillers but, although not listed on the fittings part of the website, these may be obtainable from Caley Coaches as they form part of several loco kits.

Water fillers
These have yet to be tackled. There’s nothing available without a lot of rework. Closest might be from Caley Coaches (if they will be sold separately) but the main problem with them is that they come as an identical pair whereas the Caley fillers are handed. Also there’s lovely rivet detailing on the flange except, in Caley days at least, the rivets were flush. So I may have to turn them and build up from scratch but I know from experience that they’re going to be a real fiddle, so I’ll crack on with other areas and hope that something is unearthed in the meantime.

Maker’s Plate
I think I’m going to leave them until after painting and glue them on. It will be a simple oval of brass sheet.

I’m afraid that the current marketplace didn’t support much for this update, and it doesn’t get much better in the next when we move to the smokebox area.

Lindsay

P.S. Should have mentioned earlier that the lamps (as seen on the cab side above) are also available from Caley Coaches.
David Elvy
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by David Elvy »

Thanks Lindsay for the ongoing update on how to build a 171 class using the ex Decent Models body etch, it’s an extremely useful guide.

For the 4mm modeller watch this space, a kit of parts are being looked at to save you from the search Lindsay has gone through.

For the 7mm modeller most parts are already available, with those specific parts to this class not presently available they are now in development for us to build our models.

David
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing (3) - Westinghouse

Post by lindsay_g »

OK, I lied in my previous post. I’ve diverted myself onto the Westinghouse pump rather than moving to the smokebox front, so just a short update devoted to that item.

I haven’t yet been able to identify the source of the most appropriate Westinghouse casting in my motley collection. Can no-one identify the casting in this post? Jim Smellie has said it isn’t one of his castings. Identifying it will help all those building a 171 from the etch that is now available again. Nevertheless, I decided to have a go at modifying that casting for the 171 being built :

Westinghouse in place.jpg
Westinghouse in place.jpg (63.72 KiB) Viewed 15802 times

Firstly the central area was opened out somewhat using various burrs in a Dremel which made it look a lot better. Once the pipe to the lower right was released and bent to shape, things looked better still. What isn’t quite right is the top left corner where a thin pipe should come out and disappear around the cab entrance into the cab, but with a cone shaped “thing” coming off at a T junction on the way. I swithered over doing a bit of butchery but decided against it. Instead I drilled holes and soldered in wire pipes to the 3 other exits; then drilled holes into the solebar platform and cab side for 3 of the pipes; then had a trial fit which went OK.

I’m not going to secure this in place until after painting and lining as I’ll never be able to line around it. Instead it will be glued in place after painting. So the last thing to add is the 2 bars that secured the pump to the cab side. These were made up from etch sprue, rivets punched from behind, and soldered in place on the cab side – the join between these straps and the Westinghouse will never be seen but straps soldered to the pump would possibly not sit totally flush to the cab side.

Next time, it should be the smokebox front.

Lindsay
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Another Interim

Post by lindsay_g »

"Spot the Difference" time again! Perhaps this should be posted under the Rolling Stock thread as pertaining to the prototype, so I’ve added a cross-reference post in a thread within that category.This is another unforeseen update before we actually get to the front of the smokebox - but this update is partly connected with the smokebox and will affect my final build. The importance of using photographic evidence when building the model of a specific prototype has long been advocated. Well, here may well be some further proof to back that up, but also some photographic evidence of a prototype that you mightn’t want to rely on.

Sand Pipes – Further Intrigue
Earlier in this thread reference was made to the fact that a rear sand pipe was missing in 2 photos of loco 193 but clearly seen in the third (images supplied by Jim Mac in this post ). Having studied these images and others further in trying to establish the shape of the front sand pipes I’ve recently noticed that in the lowest of the 3 images there is no front sand pipe either! What was going on? Delivered without pipes and added gradually? Or did they fall off one after another after delivery?

Lubricators
There were 3 types of lubricator taps(?) fitted to 171’s, and here they are, from left to right in the order that I’d assumed they were fitted and upgraded :

All 3 images courtesy of the CRA.
All 3 images courtesy of the CRA.
Three Types of Lubricators.jpg (37.98 KiB) Viewed 15660 times

Never assume when modelling! I had assumed that the square taps were fitted to all initially and possibly/later replaced by one or other/both of the later variants. The last 2 are available from Caley Coaches as cast items but the early square taps aren’t available. So I set about creating a couple for an early version of my model of 193 and got as far as fitting them, albeit an interference fit. Here’s an image of them being made :


Lubricators.jpg
Lubricators.jpg (65.54 KiB) Viewed 15659 times

And alongside the (part-finished) smokebox door and fittings to get an idea of the scale :

Lubricators and other fittings.jpg
Lubricators and other fittings.jpg (38.89 KiB) Viewed 15659 times

They’re obviously tiny items so the first is a rather cruel enlargement. The wire in the image may look large but it is .3mm and the pin chuck around 10mm, but even then I wasn’t wholly convinced of my efforts. Having tried unsuccessfully to create them from brass wire I resorted to copper wire from 2.5mm electrical cable - a lot easier to work with but played costly havoc with small HSS drill bits! However, I just noticed last night that in 2 of the three images I have of 193 that the middle type of lubricator tap was fitted. How did I miss that earlier? They’re obviously early images both in appearance of staff and engine in pristine condition, and as the 2-lever smokebox handles can be clearly seen. Looking at other images, 192 and 194 are both fitted with the same types of taps. They all came from the last batch of 171’s (Y26 in 1891) along with 189-191 but I have no images of these engines. So, it appears that that final batch may well have been fitted with the second variant of tap ex-works – and my efforts were a complete waste of time as well as being rather pathetic!

The next update of the smokebox front (well, I hope it is the next update) will reflect this recently realised info.

LindsayLindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build - Detailing (3) - Westinghouse

Post by Alan K »

What isn’t quite right is the top left corner where a thin pipe should come out and disappear around the cab entrance into the cab, but with a cone shaped “thing” coming off at a T junction on the way. I swithered over doing a bit of butchery but decided against it. Instead I drilled holes and soldered in wire pipes to the 3 other exits; then drilled holes into the solebar platform and cab side for 3 of the pipes; then had a trial fit which went OK.
The cone shaped 'thing' is a McIntosh lubricator! According to the Jumbo book (a mine of super info. and not just about Jumbos), the original square tallow cup lubricators with the T-shaped taps were first replaced with Furness lubricators by Smellie in 1891, and from 1904 onwards were themselves replaced by onion shaped displacement lubricators of McIntosh design. All the photos you've shown of 171's have prominently sported this type attached to the Westinghouse pump - what's happened to that self-confessed anal nature....!!

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing (3) - Westinghouse

Post by lindsay_g »

what's happened to that self-confessed anal nature....!!
Do I detect someone subliminally goading me into getting things a bit more correct? And here’s me trying to reel myself in a bit to achieve more! Actually, if a few of the items from this are to be used for masters for castings, the Westinghouse could be amongst them, so I should have a go at getting it nearer the prototype for fellow members’ sake. Having said that, lost wax castings are being considered, so we’ll have to find out from Dave E’s caster whether the fine diameter of the pipe involved will be OK for casting and bending by the modeller – perhaps one of the reasons that a better item isn’t available to date.

But, do not fear Alan, despite trying to restrain myself, I have gone rather anal elsewhere as you’ll see in coming updates.

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Lindsay
Subtlety has never been my strong point!
On a more positive note, I've just noticed that it would have been more helpful to quote all that Campbell Cornwell had to say about (smokebox) lubricators: Furness lubricators were replaced by McIntosh ones from 1904 onwards, but progress was slow and some engines still possessed the Furness lubricator until after the 1st World War. So the lubricators showing at any one time would be related to the progress in replacing the Furness with the McIntosh type. In other words it could be either, but after 1918 it would have been much more likely to have been the McIntosh lubricator. What puzzles me is that all the photos showing the Westinghouse pump feature the McIntosh lubricator - are there pictures of these same engines with Furness lubricators at the smokebox (for cylinders and steam chest)? Otherwise I would have thought that all these ones would have had McIntosh lubricators all round.

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by lindsay_g »

I've seen all images of 171's in the CRA's collection and in all images showing the Westinghouse it has the cone (or MacIntosh) item attached to it no matter what type of lubricators are attached at the front. Actually, looking at images of Drummond's NBR locos these too had the same item on the pumps so it would seem MacIntosh took inspiration from the design or it was just co-incidental that they're similar.

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Curiouser and curiouser! Cornwell definitely calls these 'McIntosh lubricators' in several places in his book. Wonder if McIntosh patented it, like he did with the patent brake? That might explain how it appears on NB engines.... It seems too much of a coincidence that an item with such a distinctive appearance can have two separate origins.

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing (4) - Smokebox Front

Post by lindsay_g »

This is a longish update for such a small area! There’s a lot of fiddly work involved at the front and as things stand presently there’s some parts not available on the market. Here’s what the front end looks like now. If things don’t look quite right it’s because several items are just balanced in place.

Smokebox fittings.jpg
Smokebox fittings.jpg (47.8 KiB) Viewed 15473 times

Going from the solebar upwards :

Smokebox Angle Brackets
There were angle brackets to secure the smokebox to the chassis, and these are represented each side of the Valve chest. These were cut from thin brass shim, bent up, cut to size, and soldered in place.

Valve Chest
The chest cover that comes with the etch has embellishments of 2 stars and a heart. I haven’t come across any 171’s with this adorning it. However, Class 104 loco No 167 did have – perhaps that’s where someone got the idea from! :

167 at D Mains with Stars and Heart.jpg
167 at D Mains with Stars and Heart.jpg (109.24 KiB) Viewed 15473 times

Handy, as I’ve got a 104 to build, it was going to be numbered 169 but will now be 167 and it obviously did the Barnton run with that image taken at D’Mains. Result!! Enough, back to the loco being modelled. A plain cover was fashioned from thin brass, shaped, fitted and 2 short lengths of wire inserted as the knobs. It just didn’t look right, so I started again, N/S this time (for no good reason especially as it’s harder to curve) and this time around it looked a lot better. The handles were “turned” from .55mm diameter brass pins reduced to around .3mm in the Dremel with the heads reduced to half the diameter and rounded off – when inserted these do give the look of a knob rather than a stub of brass. OK, more effort, but I reckon it was worth it.

Lubricators
What is fitted will depend on the loco being modelled and the era. There were 3 different types of lubricators fitted as I reported previously. I had intended fitting the original Drummond square taps, but have now fitted lubricators available from Caley Coaches. My observation regarding the lubricators on the last batch of 171’s ties in with dates in Alan’s post (must re-read the Jumbo book!). The now redundant Drummond taps can be seen in the image above.

Smokebox Door
‘Fraid this wasn’t an item currently available – plenty of smokebox doors available but not for this small diameter boiler. So I turned up one from brass. Well, turned up 3 and threw away the first 2 - what appears on the GA doesn’t seem to match what appears in images and I went more for the latter appearance (rightly or wrongly). Hinges were made from thin brass shim curled around .4m N/S wire and rod (from a syringe needle again) added top and bottom. This was assembled as an item and then soldered to the door.

Smokebox dart & Embellishment
I’m really swithering between a 2 lever dart (as originally fitted) and a wheel/lever dart (which most if not all acquired). I’ve no idea when replacement wheel darts were added but many had that arrangement but were still fitted with the original lubricator taps. So, initially at least, I’m going for the twin lever which came from Markits. Lovely turnings but improvements needed. Well oversized on the spindle plate that sits against the door, so it was put in the Dremel and reduced. The levers were overlong and were reduced in size - they still look overlong but the prototypes were more than half the length of the door radius. I realised from the image in the previous post that the diameter of the levers were too big so they’ve now been filed down.

A wheel and lever dart is available from Caley Coaches but isn’t a great representation of the wheel. I have one for another engine and will establish whether this might be suitable for casting :


782 dart.jpg
782 dart.jpg (48.34 KiB) Viewed 15473 times

There are star embellishments on the etch (mine were over-etched and incomplete as a result). No 228 is the only one I’ve seen with a star embellishment around the door dart but it’s a lot smaller than those on the etch. Perhaps those produced by 247 Developments are smaller but I haven’t seen their etch – does anyone have their etch?

Smokebox Handrail and Knobs
There doesn’t seem to be a suitable length of knob available so I used Alan Gibson short knobs. They’re some of the finest available but look well overscale when fitted, so I removed them and put them in the Dremel and reduced them in size. They still look wrong (partly because I need to reposition the one on the right side of the engine) but also because I just noticed that the knobs and (some) handrails on the smokebox were smaller than those along the boiler/tank – back to the drawing board again (3mm knobs available from their society? But to members only).

Lamp iron
This hasn’t been fitted yet, but be aware that the lamp irons on the smokebox and the bunker were fitted sideways on so that lamps fitted to the cab sides also fitted fore and aft. Yes, it does look wrong, especially when a lamp is attached. I wonder what they did when semaphore route indicators were employed?

Iron alone, then irons with lamps attached to the right and to the left. All courtesy of the CRA.
Iron alone, then irons with lamps attached to the right and to the left. All courtesy of the CRA.
front irons.jpg (27.65 KiB) Viewed 15473 times

Apart from several items fitted that need to be improved, water fillers that need to be sourced/fabricated, and the more delicate items which will be left until late on, that’s the body complete. So, next up we’re on to detailing the chassis.

Lindsay
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing(5) - Chassis Rear

Post by lindsay_g »

We've now moved on to detailing the chassis. This update covers the rear of the loco.

Injectors & Drain Cock
Previously, the firebox assembly was soldered into place temporarily to allow the bogie to be fitted. Before the temporary arrangement was unsoldered, 2 location holes, one on each side, were drilled and wire inserted for accurate re-positioning. They were then removed, the solder cleaned off the frames and the original brass wire cut flush with the frame sides and filed down into a square to represent the drain plug. Everything was then set up with the brass wire guides in place and soldered into place. The injectors were then made up from .6mm and .4mm wire and short lengths of 19 gauge syringe tube on the main pipework and 21 gauge tube on the drain pipe :

injector assembly.jpg
injector assembly.jpg (48.5 KiB) Viewed 15225 times

Fitted into place, that area now looks like this :

Injectors.jpg
Injectors.jpg (61.1 KiB) Viewed 15225 times

Rear Sand Pipes
Sand pipes attached to the body might come in for damage whilst the body is removed from the chassis, so I’m attaching them to the chassis (and they can still come in for damage – guess how I know?!?). The rear sandpipes on 171’s are by no means uniform, there are several different shapes both facing to the rear and forward, angled, curved, and so on – so choose your prototype and shape them accordingly. A small groove was filed into the tops of the frame sides and .4mm N/S wire bent into a U to fit into the groove with the pipes running down the estimated distance from the frames. The rear pipe is just a length of wire bent slightly at the bottom towards the rear wheels in the case of No 193 :

Bogie and pipe.jpg
Bogie and pipe.jpg (51.49 KiB) Viewed 15225 times

Bogie Detailing
Also seen in the above image is detailing added to the bogie, which isn’t a lot. There was an outward bulge in the outer frame which I’ve represented by sweating a piece of brass in place and rounding it off at the side edges. There is then wire rod fitted to the inner frame extending as far as the outer frame representing what I presume is part of the suspension fulcrum.

Chassis Detailing
The chassis looks awful bare in the above image. There were a number of prominent rivets around the rear area and they'll be added from the Archer's range in due course after the chassis has been primed.

Westinghouse Reservoir
There is a previous thread which covered reservoirs on 171’s. That saves me going over old ground. The reservoir on 193 was fitted longitudinally, however, I have a wee problem with the reservoir. I’ll be fitting Alex Jackson couplings which would run through the reservoir. Ideally I’d like to fit DCC coil operated AJ’s and at least make provision for them at this stage so the reservoir poses a problem. So, I’m leaving the reservoir off for the meantime.

Short and sweet tonight. Next up it will be detailing at the front of the chassis.

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Further to the debate about the various lubricators, I found this on line, which you can find if you google Alamy A8XC6M. I'm not sure if I can give a link as it wants payment to download it! But it's a period drawing of a Westinghouse pump with lubricator attached which is very similar to the 171 Class one. This suggests to me that the lubricator is more likely to have been a Westinghouse item, maybe even part of the package as supplied to the Caley. The lubricator may well have an American origin, and may be just a McIntosh lubricator 'lookalike' (or even the inspiration for McIntosh!). That would explain why the same item appears on Westinghouse-fitted NB engines, and also why it seemed to be out of line with the chronology of the CR lubricators fitted for the cylinders.
Sorry to have created a diversion....!

Alan
David Elvy
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by David Elvy »

Alan

I think https://www.alamy.com/search.html?qt=A8XC6M&imgt=0 is the image link.

David
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by Alan K »

Thanks David. Yes that's the one. If you click on the drawing itself you get an enlarged image. I found it very informative as it shows how all the parts (including the reservoir tank and the 'engine attendant's valve'!!) connect together.

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing(6) Chassis Front

Post by lindsay_g »

Brakes
Brake shoes were by no means the same shape on all 171 engines, here’s a selection :

All images from CR era, all images courtesy of the CRA.
All images from CR era, all images courtesy of the CRA.
Shoe Shapes.jpg (53.37 KiB) Viewed 14807 times

I’m using a brake shoe etch from NBR 4mm Developments which come shaped as on 172 (top left above) :

The layout of this etch differs from the one currently available but the parts are unchanged.
The layout of this etch differs from the one currently available but the parts are unchanged.
Brake etch.jpg (36.31 KiB) Viewed 14807 times

However, as that’s not a shape common to many Caley engines, I fettled them somewhat to look more like those on 193. Another couple of things to improve them is to file the fold-over knuckles to half the depth or less once they’re soldered in place as a full etch thickness is too deep. Also (at least on the etch I had) there’s a cusp to be filed off. I only did this on the noticeable leading edge and it makes the levers appear a lot more substantial.
I fitted .6mm x .4mm brass tube from Albion Alloys (obtained cheapest on Ebay) into the frames and soldered .4mm wire into the top and bottom knuckles as I want to make the brake assembly removable so that the wheels can also be removed for maintenance. The 171 etch has the outside rods and cross members (part no’s 25 & 26 in the image in the initial post of this thread). However, the rod is slightly overlength - it should be the same as the wheelbase, so the brake shoes will never be equidistant from the wheels. I wondered about living with that and decided against. I tried cutting and shunting the brake rods laminating 2 together with the cuts in different places but they’re so fine that it wasn’t a good option at all. I ended up making 2 new rods from spare N/S etch material. The reduced area on the outer edges of the cross members on the etch are too short to go through the brake levers, then a spacer, then the outside rods. However, it seems the etch designer has assumed the cross members were flat plates that tapered outwards towards the middle as on later engines but images of 171’s clearly show that at least the front cross member is cylindrical. No image gives a good picture of the rear cross member but it again appears to be cylindrical, and the GA suggests this, so again I’m fitting .6mm x .4mm brass rod. Only 1 image shows the brake control rod running to the brake column mechanism, it can’t be seen in any other images. I have added the angled rod connectors to the centrally positioned rod as they might be seen but am undecided over adding the final part of the rodding – we’ll review that once everything is in place.

Brakes.jpg
Brakes.jpg (23.47 KiB) Viewed 14807 times

Front Sand Pipes
As you can also see in the above image, the front pipes were a bit more involved. They curve around the front of the brake pivots quite close to the frames and then bend outwards below the brake shoe to align with the track, and also bend rearwards again to finish quite close to the front wheels.

Inside Cylinder, Motion Plate, etc
Despite the fact that there isn’t a lot of space between the front of the tanks, front splashers and boiler, you can from certain angles – and admittedly within very close proximity - see a lot of what isn’t in place in there but you can see the front axle , the hornblocks and the CSB arrangement (all rather unprototypical). So, I decided to add some representation of things associated with the inside cylinders to hide the springing; have something to paint red; and to hide the lead weight that I might add.

Inside motion.jpg
Inside motion.jpg (42.95 KiB) Viewed 14807 times

Needless to say, I got all self- indulgent and added more than I needed and wasted an evening or 3 in the process. Just why I went to the trouble of representing the curved top surface of a Drummond motion plate is beyond me ( that’s me assuming the one fitted to a 171 was similar to a Jumbo – P94 of the book)! I’m sure I’ve gone a lot further than I needed but, having said that, it certainly isn’t a precise depiction of the arrangement nor is it anything like perfectly aligned – no-one will ever see these imperfections. It’s well truncated at the rear where the gearbox sits and at the front outers where the hornblocks interfere (if I realised that I was fitting this inside stuff I’d have fitted space-saver hornblocks at the front for a neater finish).

Add the body to the chassis and we’re nearly there :

Nearly there.jpg
Nearly there.jpg (56.19 KiB) Viewed 14807 times

Coupling Rods
I realise that whilst I’ve built a chassis, and fitted wheels, that I haven’t mentioned coupling rods. Seems I better do so now!
The bad news is that when I’m building this loco there are no good representation of CR coupling rods available on the market. However, we currently have 2 enterprising gents progressing this gap in different ways, so I see little point in me fabricating rods that will become available and probably a lot better than I can fettle. So, having fabricated one around 50% towards completion I’ve used that to create a matching length crude rod for the other side until rods become available. Perhaps not the classic order in which to build a loco, but heh ho.

It’s about time to get that little lot moving along track, so next time we might concentrate on pick-ups and lead weighting….or perhaps not. Let’s wait and see, as there are welcomed developments afoot eleswhere.

Lindsay
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Detailing(7) - Items for Casting

Post by lindsay_g »

In the last post, I threatened to move on to getting the engine running (which I’ve more or less achieved), but the intriguing "developments going on elsewhere” mentioned in that post have made me change course somewhat – but it is all positive for anyone thinking of a purchase from Alba Models/David Elvy. As happens in most things in life, things don’t always go as one might imagine and so it turns out with the and this thread. My initial plan was to source items for the build to assist others building the model but it started to become obvious that rather major items weren’t available. It also became obvious that for anyone building the loco they were having to go to a good number of suppliers to build it. You might have read in this thread or elsewhere on the Forum that David Elvy is now supplying appropriate brass tube for the boiler with the etch, is pursuing the etching of coupling rods, and making progress on the chassis. What isn’t common knowledge is that David is now pursuing supply of all castings involving several individuals towards that goal. This includes the turned items I’ve made to date and a few more. So, I’ve given priority to getting these pieces ready so that David can get things off to the caster in the near future.

This update is concentrating on the items that will be going off for casting. This might mean that things come to a halt on this thread whilst awaiting their return or delivery of cast items, but hopefully other work will keep the thread going in the meantime. Enough of the intro and waffle, let’s get on to what’s been happening….

Firstly items that have been mentioned previously. (Please bear in mind that the items going off for casting are just laid into place so a few are well askew in the photos!) :

Westinghouse Pump
Well, Alan laid down the gauntlet, so I’ve picked it up and had a go at improving the present casting, and here it is :

IMG_4041.jpg
IMG_4041.jpg (102.21 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

The lubricator (top left) has now been fettled into a semblance of what was fitted and is now a separate entity from the body of the pump. A length of brass wire is soldered to it which I’ve left straight for the caster - the modeller will need to bend this to shape around the cab side. Elsewhere on it, the central area has been opened out further and casting marks on the original have been removed.

Chimney & Dome
I said I wanted to improve the base of both of the items and the observant amongst you might have noticed that I’d done so in the final image in the last thread (don’t bother looking back, others will follow). I’m pleased with the improvements to the chimney and thought I was pleased with the progress on the dome but viewing the images that follow, I will do another little bit of work on it (having said that the hefty edges have been removed, only spaces between dome and boiler linger - whether the dome is glued or soldered into place the glue/solder will take up the missing area).

Yes the handrail position still needs to be improved!!!!
Yes the handrail position still needs to be improved!!!!
IMG_4005.jpg (59.47 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

Wheel Smokebox Dart
Previously I was swithering between the original 2-lever dart arrangement and the more classic Caley wheel arrangement for my model. Images did seem to suggest that the wheel arrangement was introduced fairly widespread and before other upgrades so I was verging towards the wheel as the way to go. Having produced a wheel dart for the caster, my mind is made up that it has to be the wheel – I’m rather pleased with what I’ve put together. If the castings come back as good as the original a few other locos will be altered as well :

Water Fillers
These little items have now been put together :

IMG_3839.jpg
IMG_3839.jpg (91.48 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

I couldn’t bear turning 2 from scratch as they’re handed and overlap the curved tank edge – I did so on a scratchbuilt 782 and they were such a pain. So, I took a pair of fillers from a Caley Coaches kit and filed/sanded off most of the detail - a lot of (lovely) rivets that didn’t exist in CR days and all semblances of hinge or catch arrangements. The hinges were added from brass shim curved around .3mm wire, and fitted to the rear of both. The catches started life as 1mm brass wire put in a Dremel to create the spindle of the tightening T-handle. The handle was then created by filing down both sides and then rounding off top and bottom. The bottom of the catch was then filed into a square. Finally it was soldered in place. Just took 15 minutes….or was that hours?

Backplate
I’m providing my take on a backplate (I’ve little to go on for accuracy sake). However, it isn’t meant to be a great representation of what might have been in place. When it comes to backplates on tank engines, they are so deep inside a dark space and hidden by driver/fireman that I can’t see the point in doing anything but a representation – and that’s all I’ve done for me and for David. There’s still a wee bit more work done before it is finished, so all you are getting is this glimpse! :

IMG_4018.jpg
IMG_4018.jpg (54.26 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

If you think it is sitting high, you’d be correct. I’ve sized it for anyone not building a raised cab floor – for those that do (like me), 1mm will have to be filed off the bottom – that meets both needs best.

Blower Valve
I’ve got one feeler out presently, trying to lay my hands on a blower valve casting. If that fails to deliver, then I’m going to file one up. The one I did for the 171 is in place and would just fall apart if I tried to remove it :

IMG_3979.jpg
IMG_3979.jpg (60.36 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

So, that definitely is the detailing over until everything above is fixed in place and the final delicate items added. We will definitely be getting it moving in the next update.

Lindsay
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

CLASS 171 Build - Brake Standard

Post by lindsay_g »

I'm finalising some castings to send off to David. I don't know of any 4mm kit that comes with the correct shape of brake standard so I've taken time to create one which, providing things come through the process OK, will make available via Alba a casting that anyone can purchase for addition to many tank and tender engines from Drummond's early ones with the CR onwards. It's pretty hard to get a decent image of it and the extreme enlargement doesn't exactly do it justice but, in life size, I'll be happy to attach it to any engine of mine :

Brake Standard.jpg
Brake Standard.jpg (31.53 KiB) Viewed 14317 times


Lindsay
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by lindsay_g »

I have to provide an update to my post of 27th Feb above in this thread. I've come across an image of loco no. 194 resplendent with the embellishments on the valve chest cover and smokebox door provided on the etch :

IMG_20190317_0001.jpg
IMG_20190317_0001.jpg (109.79 KiB) Viewed 14161 times

It is probably from this image that the etch designer has mistaken the burnished areas for the raised areas depicted on the half-etched smokebox front item (part no 17 in the initial post). I'm not sure whether there is a burnished horizonal area at the foot of the smokebox front or whether this is light reflecting off the upper surface of the angle bracket but it seems like the latter.

Lindsay
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by jimwatt2mm »

It looks to my eye as if the top edge of the angle bracket has been burnished. I note also that the side edges of the valve chest cover have also been burnished.

Jim W
lindsay_g
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: CLASS 171 Build

Post by lindsay_g »

Apologies to all for the lack of continuity of this thread. The interruption is a wee bit of an embarrassment to me. I'm waiting on 2 fronts for items to arrive.

Coupling rods should arrive from Lanarkshire Model Supplies in the next couple of weeks including the ones I want for the 171 (currently not yet available). I'm looking forward to receiving in total 8 sets of rods and will report on them in due course. If other work from Dave Franks is anything to go by, they should be a joy to employ as part of any build or conversion - others have reported positively elsewhere.

The other things I'm waiting on is the return of fittings that were sent off as masters for castings to make the build of a 171 accessible to many. Trouble is that so far they've gone out but to date have not returned, and I'm somewhat in the dark as to the present position. All a bit perplexing in view of the effort and time involved.

Hopefully, we'll have more to report soon and we can progress towards completion. Cheers,

Lindsay
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