Ballest over turnout sleepers

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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Steve Parsons
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Steve Parsons » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:22 am

Hi chaps your advice please.
I want to lay a bit of track using Peco track which will include a couple of large radius turnouts.
Being off the shelf Peco the turnouts will have no interlaced sleepers.

My question is, is there a case for ballesting over the sleeper to disguise this fact.
The period would be 1880 to 1900 Caledonian

I know many of you might say if your building in 00 and not EM or P4 why bother but everyone to there own and even though it's off the peg I'd like to have at least an "At first glance" look to the track work if you see what I mean
Thanks

Steve Parsons
Last edited by Steve Parsons on Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ian Smeeton
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Ian Smeeton » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:42 pm

Try the new Peco Bullhead ponts for a better representation, perhaps?

Regards

Ian

David Elvy
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by David Elvy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:31 pm

I have seen the new peco track on a friends layout, it's night and day even compared to code 75 track.

David

Jim Summers
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Jim Summers » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:04 pm

Sadly, I don't think there is a case for ballasting over the sleepers, Steve, but doubtless someone will find a picture to prove me wrong.
A lot of track was ballasted with ash, so with some with some judicious weathering of sleepers and ballast together, you might be able to disguise to a degree the fact that the sleepers are not interlaced.

JimS

Steve Parsons
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Steve Parsons » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:18 am

Thanks Jim I figured as much but it was more a case of whishfull thinking than anything else.

Still I've got a few other ideas one being to replace some plastic sleeper with copper clad ones to get the look right
If done in sections I won't loose the turnouts geometry.

Alan K
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Alan K » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:45 am

That would be how I would go. There's a complication involved with finding a way to get a 'spacer' between the bottom of the rail and the top of the pcb sleeper to simulate the chair, but I think it's do-able

Alan

jimwatt2mm
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by jimwatt2mm » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:30 am

In 2fs we use an etched 10thou 'chairplate' to lift the rail of the pcb sleeper. Perhaps something similar could be used.

Jim W

Alan K
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Alan K » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:36 pm

The track making method used by the EM/Scalefour fraternity relies on the head of a copper rivet (which is 0.5mm thick) to raise the rail above the sleeper, so spacers from 0.5mm brass strip might be the answer here. If I was doing it this way, I'd tin the spacers in advance on both sides and solder them onto the sleepers. Then once correctly placed against the underside of the rail I'd clamp the rail down against the spacer/sleeper and solder together (without lingering too long with the soldering iron!) Nickel silver rail doesn't conduct heat as well as brass, but plenty of aluminium heat shunts would be a good idea to keep the heat away from the plastic bits.
I don't think every joint should be soldered either: the structural integrity would easily be maintained with every second or third joint glued.
And the bonus would be that sliced up C&L chairs could be superglued in afterwards over the spacers....!

Alan

David Thorpe
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by David Thorpe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:56 pm

Rather than the above, you might actually find it easier just to scratch build the pointwork. Maybe there's someone on this forum who could supply a template for an 00 interlaced turnout and you could then proceed using ply sleepers and rivets, or ply and plastic chairs, or plastic and plastic, or copperclad (if you're using Peco plain track perhaps plastic sleepers and plastic chairs would be your best bet). C&L sell point kits with chairs and sleepers (ply or plastic) only for £14.40 (but see P.S. below). You can also buy ready made crossing Vs and machined switch blades, but they're expensive and I've always got on perfectly well making my own with the assistance of a decent file and, for the former, a very basic home made jig.

DT

P.S. On reflection, the C&L point kits would in fact be no good for you because the sleepers are full length.
Last edited by David Thorpe on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

John Lindsay
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by John Lindsay » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:34 pm

Timber Tracks do 4mm NER interlaced sleeper bases in laser cut ply for 1:8 turnouts (http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php ... y&path=8_9). I used them with C&L components and the results look good to my untutored eye.

Best of luck with whatever approach toy choose.

Cheers

John

JimG
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by JimG » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 pm

John Lindsay wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:34 pm
Timber Tracks do 4mm NER interlaced sleeper bases in laser cut ply for 1:8 turnouts (http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php ... y&path=8_9). I used them with C&L components and the results look good to my untutored eye.
I think Brian Lewis has recently retired himself from the main business of Timber Tracks so you might have difficulty getting his stock items these days.

Jim G.

David Thorpe
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by David Thorpe » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:07 am

Steve, do you know what radius of turnout you want to use? I don't offhand know the radius of Peco large radius turnouts. The reason I ask is that when I built my P4 layout I created some templates for interlaced points using Templot and if I was able to remaster the intricacies of that unique programme I might be able to change them to 00.

DT

Steve Parsons
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Ballest over turnout sleepers

Post by Steve Parsons » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:10 pm

Hello David im working with a limited space (arent we all)
But have drawn up a plan that circumnavigate the room and rather than over load it with features and detail I'm working on a plan that gives a complete oval (one wall will be the fiddle yard) it will be mainly a single track with a passing loop and simple goods yard at a station.

Keeping it simple I've managed to use only large radius Peco points which are equal to 3rd radius curves.

The inner loop will be to 3rd radius curves and the outer loop will be to 4th radious standards so hopefully nice gracefull sweeping curves.

Another reason is the large amount of 6 wheel stock which even with compansated chassis is not happy on less than third radius curves with very few able to run on 2nd radious curves and turnouts (Peco medium radious turn outs are about the same as 2nd radious curves)

As always money's tight and pretty much all the track is from my exicting stock of track work and turnouts.

By cutting the web's on the sleeper I shall reposition the sleepers to a more "British" spacing and will modify the turn outs in the same manor.

Be disabled and sitting on a fair stock of track replacing the lot is just not an option I'm afraid in my situation.

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