Dock Tank Deviations

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
Jim Summers
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Jim Summers »

Fine work as usual, Alan, and that overlay does make a difference.
Looking forward to the nest stage.
JimS
lindsay_g
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by lindsay_g »

Coming on lovely, I'll be copying the method for making the lubricators!

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

And here's a shameless indulgence to celebrate the completion of the body!
IMG_5017.JPG
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I'm indebted to Lindsay G for pointing out the water depth gauge for the tanks: I had a look at my collection of 498 Class photos and sure enough I found one taken at the right angle. So it had to go in!
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This one shows the Lambie blower, which I think is operated from a rod which runs inside the hollow handrail (I've found that Campbell Cornwell's Jumbo book to be invaluable -lots of the items which appear were standard CR parts not just used on the Jumbo).
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And finally a view of the back end if for no other reason than to show that the replacement rear window guards have now been fitted. And you can just see that there is a taper on the two entry stanchions...
A little bit of work to do to fit brake blocks and rear sandboxes, then I've purchased a grit gun to sandblast the brass for painting which I haven't used yet (but would welcome any tips!)

Stay safe and isolated everyone!

Alan
jasp
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by jasp »

Great work.
Re grit blaster, I made a wee cabinet but Allan Goodwillie used a largish, clear poly bag which I thought was great - easy to collect and reuse the grit.
It is useful, also, to have a very fine sieve to filter out any larger debris that may clog the nozzle.
Haven’t used mine for some time and I bought aluminium oxide either 1 or 2Kg, 180 or 200 grit - the small quantity usually supplied disappears soon. I cannot recall where I bought the grit.
I have both a Badger one and a Chinese made “air eraser” which was better than the Badger.
Hope this is of some help
Jim P
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Thanks Jim. I've seen Allan Goodwillie's article and will use his method. What I'm a little concerned about is whether I need to protect the more delicate parts from the blast, such as the soft thin copper filament wire used for the window 'bars' and the protruding lamp irons on the foot plate. I may need to come up with some temporary reinforcing!

Alan
jasp
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by jasp »

I would certainly protect the window bars - why not use some masking tape - that is what we used for masking glass prior to grit blasting, the grit used being coarser than 180/200.
The lamp irons will probably be ok but try out on a wee strip of scrap brass first
Jim P
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Thanks, that sounds good advice Jim. I shall be on to that once the brake blocks and sandboxes have been fitted. So not long - then I'll need to find another project to fill the self-isolation! There's a bunch of True Line wagons.....


Alan
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

The addition of the brake gear turned out to be more difficult than I had thought. First, I found that there wasn't enough room for the hangers using the pivot holes provided on the etch. This might have been me as a result of my 'improvements' to the outside motion taking up a tad more space. But I got around this by 'wearing off' the brake blocks to make room (ie filing them down!). Then there was a problem with the thickness of the pull-rods because the more generous frame spacing which I had to use to accommodate the High Level gearbox- CSB suspension combination left little space. Then I found that the pull-rods themselves were 2mm too long and had to be shortened. There is a dearth of information in the instructions about how the pull-rods are to be fitted, although with the aid of the Jumbo drawing in my trusty 'Jumbo' book (thank you yet again Campbell Cornwell!) I was able to work out which way round they went.
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Here are the three pairs of brake hangers soldered up. Another thing that isn't given in the instructions is how the pull-rods are connected under the loco: I'm pretty sure this would have been a beam just the same as is used on the Jumbo. This suited me because I could use thin (0.5mm thick) single sided PCB to make the beams, which could then be gapped (for split frame construction). The pair at the left have the typical 'bow-tie' shaped pivot at the top of the hanger, but I didn't have space for them on the other hangers. This pair will be for the rear wheels- thankfully the absence is less noticeable on the others. I wasn't sure that this feature wasn't an LMS addition, but the pictures of the 0-8-0T 492 Class engines in Donald Peddie's article (in the True Line which arrived today!) clearly show that they are definitely CR origin.
At the top of the photo is how I managed to reduce the thickness of the pull-rods (they are quite delicate, and I was making them even more delicate!) - by soldering them to a length of 1.5mm thick PCB (the stuff you can get for making non-interleaved points, which is why I've got some unused!). I draw-filed them down to 0.25mm from 0.45mm, which makes all the difference clearance-wise and eliminates any rubbing on the backs of the wheel tyres.
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This is the completed brake rig -front to the right. I had to shorten the trailing end to line up with the holes in the frame provided. It looks quite delicate, but it's robust enough to survive being manipulated into place with the projecting pins at the top of the hangers clicking into place in the holes provided on the frames. I haven't decided yet how the cross-beam at the rear should be done (it will have to be insulated) and whether any representation of the crank mechanism for the application of the brake (under the floor of the cab) is needed. It isn't really visible from the side as the steps are in the way...
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And finally, the brake rig in place. The rear sandbox is not yet fixed. I'm trying to think of a elegant way of fixing it that will allow removal to take off the wheel set and that is eluding me so far. This is one of the situations where with a moment's thought before the frames were soldered up I could have drilled holes for addional fixing 'pegs', but now too late!

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by jimwatt2mm »

It's a great pity that there are no 'like' or 'craftsmanship/clever' icons to click on in this forum as there are on RMWeb. I would have been clicking on the latter for every one of your posts, Alan! :D

Jim
Jim Summers
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Jim Summers »

I have been drooling for quite some time over that final picture, Alan. Well worth all your effort.

JimS
jasp
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by jasp »

Excellent, I particularly like the side rods.
Jim P
caleyJim
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by caleyJim »

'Umbled by the amount of detail you are putting into this loco. Well done that man!
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Thanks for the generous comments, guys. You are very kind!
I've spent what seems like ages finishing off and then finding bits that I'd forgotten. The fixing of the removable rear sandboxes was fiddly and definitely not elegant! What was needed was a drilled and tapped 8BA hole in the sandbox which I managed with difficulty (eg tapping a blind hole without a 'plug' tap!) and much muttering. Then the short length of thread meant that washers were needed for the little screws so that the sandboxes could be held tightly. I ended up with this:
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Then I had forgotten about the openings at the front below the buffer beam through which the end caps of the Stephenson rods can be seen. Thanks to Jim Guthrie I managed to get a copy of the drawing which gave me some idea of the dimensions involved, so I made little cosmetic pieces which had to be set back from the openings with little blocks to act as spacers:
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The final front end looks like this:
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Then I noticed that there were no sandpipes leading from the front sandboxes (and not much to fix them to...). I ended up soldering them to the backs of the front brake hangers - another very fiddly job!
So here are some pics of the finished engine:
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Still doesn't have the 'LMS built St Rollox' plates on the front sandboxes though - ordered from Narrow Planet but haven't come yet.
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You can just see the front sandpipe in this view. I've now used up my picture allowance. The other missing thing is the water tank capacity plate on the rear end. I'm not sure whether these were fitted early on in LMS days. I've PM'd Michael Dunn to see if he knows but he hasn't opened it yet (hint!)...
So next task is to dismantle the chassis for grit blasting and painting.
Stay safe everybody

Alan
Jim Summers
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Jim Summers »

Thanks Alan.
You have quite cheered my day, not just by the skill displayed in the completed model, but by the discovery that it is not just me who forgets things until they become awkward. You can guess that I have just done so on the scratchbuild I have in hand.

I remember Chris Pendlenton once remarking that in building locos, sequence was everything. I guess that meant he had forgotten things too in his time, which is some consolation.

Best wishes,

JIm
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Some progress. Everything has now been disassembled for painting. I made a little shallow 6 compartment cardboard box to store and identify all the parts (crankpin bearings, washers, nuts etc) which is stuck onto the table to prevent it from tipping. Wheel bearings are colour coded so that the wheel sets go back the same way into the chassis.
This is the grit blasted condition:
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This was a first for me - an extra 'belt & braces' to assist paint adhesion. A bit messy, but most of the dust contained in a large polythene bag. It turned out that I didn't need to protect any delicate parts, even using 45psi with the grit gun. But it gives a nice uniform dull appearance to the brass.
I used Upol self etching primer in an aerosol can. This photo shows the major parts after priming:
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I'd like to draw your attention to this piece of precision engineering excellence:
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You might be tempted to dismiss this as a scrap of MDF screwed onto a length of towel rail rod, but you would be wrong! As illustrated by this next photo, the precisely engineered head attachment fits into the gap between the footplate and the boiler cut-out with a smooth quarter turn so that the body is securely attached.
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The handle can now be used to angle the body in any direction for painting, either with aerosol or airbrush!
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This picture was meant to be portrait, but insists on coming out 'landscape'!
I'm now waiting for the paint to be delivered....

Alan
JimG
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by JimG »

Alan,

I'm just catching up with your thread having been otherwise engaged with our NHS since the middle of March. But I'm now home and getting back to full strength so I'm starting to look around for the next project to do and 498 class might well be that - especially since I made a set of wheels and all the cylinder parts some seven years ago. :)
498Wheel54.jpg
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498Wheel58.jpg
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I'll certainly use your thread as a procedural guide although my chassis will be split insulation - a preferred method in S scale with all metal wheels and split axles. I have done a bit of experimenting in 1:32 scale with 3D printed frame spacers and metal frames and that worked quite well so I might try the same in S.

Glad then drawing helped out with the valve boxes,

Jim.
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

These wheels are amazing Jim. I'm interested to see your build in due course. Note that the drawing you sent me has just a little of the slide bar on it which shows the taper, which I found quite helpful. My model is also split frame in case you hadn't noticed!

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by lindsay_g »

Both the images exhibit exquisite modelling or lathe work. I’m always amazed with folks that can create wheels with such precision.

Lindsay
Jim Summers
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Jim Summers »

Glad to hear you are back in business, Jim.
I echo the others who have expressed admiration for that quality work.

And Alan's bespoke holder for his model is definitely worth the time taken.

JimS
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

I regret to report that progress on finishing this little engine has been somewhat stalled since May. I did manage to apply the black cellulose top coat a while ago, but this is as far as I've got.
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Progress has stalled because of availability of suitable transfers. I had to wait until late July to receive HMRS transfers, but I've discovered that these do not include what I wanted.
Basically I want to have the engine in early LMS livery, which is 18" numerals on the tank and the red LMS bunker panel. But the HMRS LMS transfer Sheet 1 only has black shaded 18" numbers, and not plain yellow 18" numbers, and the notes supplied appear to insist that these were what were used prior to 1928. But I've looked at a lot of photos of tank engines from that period and I can't see any sign of black shading. The bible for LMS matters is Essery & Jenkinson (I have LMS Locomotives Vol.3), but they have little to say on the matter, other than remarks like 'shading is hard to detect except under glass' and 'the difficulty of resolving the issue in all cases'. I suspect that this means that both counter shaded and plain were used, but it's difficult to tell. What I do know is that the black shaded transfers are very clearly that and cannot be mistaken for plain! I thought I had the answer as there is a Sheet 2a which has the Crewe straw figures, but after a frustratingly long wait I find that there aren't any 18" numbers, the largest being 14"!! So I'm rather stuck - the only way that has been pointed out to me is to obtain the equivalent 7mm/ft transfers, and it does contain a 6mm high set of numerals. But these cost nearly 3 times the price, and I would be left with lots of unusable parts. I'm still thinking about it....!

Alan
lindsay_g
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by lindsay_g »

Hi Alan,

Ages since we conversed over the ether. Private joke!

Might printing your own on decal paper be an option? Since it’s LMS period I have no idea if a suitable font is available, but since they’re yellow at least a bog standard printer can accommodate them.

Lindsay
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Now getting close to completion!
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I'm very grateful to Jim Smellie for arranging to get me a set of 7mm numerals.....!
There's a photo of 16170 in this livery sitting at Dawsholm shed on the SLS photo database. To my eye, the 18" numerals are clearly plain yellow/straw and not shaded. The only licence I've taken is not having the rivetted smokebox. It wouldn't have got that until it was re-boilered, so my model is of a slightly earlier condition.
Of course that 'just out of the box' look doesn't appeal to me, so the next stage is to apply that weathered look!

Alan
caleyJim
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by caleyJim »

Looking good - I'm glad to have been able to help.

Jim
Dave John
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Dave John »

Very impressive as ever Alan.
Alan K
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Dock Tank Deviations

Post by Alan K »

Almost there now. I finished the weathering a while ago but then did some internal rearrangements to accommodate making it 'DCC ready', complete with dummy chip. But this resulted in the chassis being subjected to more handling than I would have liked, with inevitable effects on the paintwork. If things had been done properly in the correct order, all that would have been avoided! I can see glimmers of brass showing in the photos which will need attention, but other than that it's finished.
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One of each side and
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As I've said before, the 'just out of the paintshop' look is not for me!
There is, almost as a postmortem, one last deviation to report. I went to great trouble to shoe-horn in brake rods inside the wheels. Well, that was a mistake as I've now learned that from McIntosh onwards there was the use of what Campbell Cornwell describes as a compensated brake rod arrangement - but it was a single central rod. It's not easy to see, so I've turned the engine upside down to show that has now been altered!
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Thanks for looking

Alan
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