Pug Tender

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

I have an unfinished dumb buffered version of this wagon with outside axleguards which was put aside over 5 years ago. It was constructed using a John Boyle drawing (similar but not quite the same as the CRA wagon drawing) which was very kindly given to me by David Lochrie. However I can't for the life of me remember why I didn't finish it and have decided that it was time that I did! Besides, I've accumulated a number of other wagons which are ready for painting.......
This shows how far I had got.
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To my '5 year later' eye there were some good points and some not so good.
On the plus side, I had chosen to use Bill Bedford sprung W irons, which I still rate highly. I'd also used his outside axleguards which are perhaps not quite right - but I think this was before the TLM CR 06 etch came out. I filed a recess into the back of the white metal 51L springs to accommodate the Bill Bedford inside w iron unit, and clipped off the outer arms so that this part is completely obscured by the centre part of the outside axleguard (which is purely cosmetic).
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In order to make a more robust fixing to the solebar, I had drilled out 2 of the half etched rivets and soldered in brass pins which fit into holes drilled in the solebar. You have to be very precise when drilling the holes in the right place - it's all too easy to get the axleguard not quite square - and you can see clearly that one hole has had to be opened out so that the axleguard position can be adjusted!
But on the not so good side, the axleboxes were projecting too far out from the outside of the axleguards and hadn't been thinned down enough. This photo shows the thinned down axlebox on the right. The thinned down axlebox can also be seen in the photo above.
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In addition, there are full length steps and grab rails to be attached on each side, hand brake levers and brake blocks yet to be added, draw plates front and back to say nothing of the array of umpteen straps and bolt heads.......
But that's for another time!

Alan
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Jim Summers »

Interesting work, as always, Alan.
There do seem to be endless detail variations on these vehicles, leaving the modeller a fairly free hand.

I look forward to the next stages.


Jim S
Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

The parts which proved the trickiest to do turned out to be the hangers for the steps. They attach to the solebars with a flat section the width of which scales out at 0.75mm. But the vertical shafts are round section and scale out at 0.4mm. I decided to make these from 0.5mm brass pins, and created the flat part by flattening out a ~4mm length by lightly hammering on a steel block anvil. I didn't take many pictures, but this shows what you get before trimming. The part in contact with the anvil is quite smooth, and that's the side which will be outermost.
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The problem is that to drill 0.5mm holes for the pins which attach to the solebar leaves little margin for error (don't ask...!), as there is not much 'meat' on either side of the hole. So I cheated and made inserts which had the holes drilled first and the sides filed down so that the holes centre-line is exactly parallel. This then gets soldered to the 'hammered' face of the hanger, the holes then drilled right through and the whole laminate filed to 0.75mm wide and rounded at the top. This turned out to be a good solution and made the task of making up all 6 hangers less troublesome!
The step itself was fairly straightforward, with cutouts for the axleboxes and lengths of brass angle soldered to the rear of the step to create the rear lips.
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The handrail fixings are rudimentary, and loco handrail knobs are no good, so I reverted to another brass pin hammering exercise (I apologise if this seems like '10 things you can make with a brass pin, numbers 2 and 3' that you might get on You Tube!). Basically you hammer the pin head on a steel block anvil to produce a lollipop shape, drill a hole through the centre and then file the exterior into a ring.
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There are 3 fixings per side needed, which are inserted into the outside timbers.
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This photo shows the finished condition
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I've now run out of picture allowance, so brake details and other bits and pieces to follow!

Alan
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Jim Summers »

This gets better and better, Alan.

JimS
Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

The brakes on these wagons consisted of a wooden block activated by a lever on each side. Each brake block was made from a piece of PCB, with a push rod soldered on, as shown here:
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The other ends are fixings, and aren't seen behind the solebars.
The brake lever guides on the dumb buffered wagons are quite different from the more modern spindle-buffered ones: there is a pronounced curve at the top, which is quite distinctive. I made these by folding up the 51L ones differently as can be seen here
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The brake levers themselves were made from shortened 51L ones (I only had the long single shoe ones) which had to be tapered once the shape was formed, but that was quite straightforward. What was not so straightforward was quite a lot of rather tedious drilling of holes in the solebars to insert short lengths of wire to represent the multitude of bolt heads which are to be seen in the photographs.....
The straps to be found all over the body and solebars were made from thinned down Evergreen styrene strip. I've found that if you're not too heavy handed with the rivet embossing tool (I've got the type that is activated by dropping a weight), it's possible to emboss rivets in styrene. So it doesn't take too long to make (16 straps, so 32 rivets!)
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I had to make my own hook drawplates (seen above) as none of the etched ones I had were either the right size or the right shape. Mr Williams very helpfully gives us a drawing and dimensions in Appendix vii of the Wagon Book!
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And finally, here's a photo of the wagon sitting on rails! My little camera's automatic focus system doesn't seem to recognise the styrene rivets on the corner plates - maybe it doesn't detect the contrast enough...
IMG_5091.JPG
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So that's as far as I've got: it's primer next, although I always miss having to say goodbye to the brass.....!
Dave John
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Dave John »

They look very good Alan.
Alan K
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Re: Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

Painting finished at last.
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I struggled to get the colour right - I found that the Precision 'Caledonian Wagon Oxide' (from a new tin) seemed to me to be too dark, even after adding white or yellow to lighten. I wanted a more faded look to fit into my chosen late CR/early LMS period, so it needed to be more 'pink' and ended up brush painting on top of the airbrushed finish with Windsor & Newton acrylic red iron oxide with some added yellow. With a bit of added black pigment to dirty things down a bit, it seems OK to my eye anyway.
The transfers are Methfix. I didn't have the courage to attempt to get the 'engine tender' lettering right with the new CRA waterslide transfers!

Alan
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Jim Summers »

That all seems very successful to me, Alan. Very nice,

JimS
lindsay_g
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by lindsay_g »

Agreed, looks very nice indeed.

Lindsay
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Agree with Lindsay and Jim. Very nice 'been some time in service' finish.

I too found the new Pheonix Precision much darker than the original Precision and struggled to get a better shade. Adding some yellow and a little white helps. I have always added a varying amount of white to the old Precision just to vary the shade slightly between wagons, but with the new paint I find white on its own makes it too pink, whereas yellow gives an orangey tinge to it closer to the old stuff.

Jim W
Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

Thanks for the encouraging remarks guys. I've got more wagons to paint, so I'm resolved to do a bit more experimenting with colour/shade alternatives. But I'll report that back on a separate thread. There's been some discussion about Caledonian Red Oxide before, and I think the consensus has been that there was inevitable variation depending on which paint shop was involved and probably also batch variability of the available paint, which may not have come under such corporate scrutiny as that of passenger engine and carriage stock paint stock.
It would be interesting to explore just what range of hue/shade 'looks right'.....
Then there is the ageing effect of light on the paint itself: I've seen lots of reference to 'reds' fading to pink as time passes. But did red oxide really fade over time to the pale pink which I photographed on the Diagram 67 van at Bo'ness in the early nighties? It would be good to know
the basis (and authenticity) of the colours that the preservation folk have used.

Alan
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by jimwatt2mm »

At the risk of repeating myself, I do think we get too hung up on what exact shade wagons (and other things) were. As Alan says, the shade would vary from batch to batch and builder to builder as there wouldn't be the same meticulous quality control. Would there even have been a 'reference' colour to which to match? Add to this the effects of the smoky industrial atmosphere and such sunlight as penetrated that and I imagine the shade varied quite a bit. Colour is also a very subjective thing and depends very much on how our brains interpret the signals coming from the light receptors in our eyes.

I recall George Russell telling the tale of some LNER Society members who had not only found a list of the ingredients for wagon grey, but also an old painter who had worked at Doncaster. They asked him to show them how they mixed the paint. He just started taking a shovelful or two of each pigment. When they asked him how they judged exactly how much of each he replied that the bosses were only bothered about the colour of the top-link locos. Wagons had just to be painted grey.

Jim W
Dave John
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Dave John »

The shade looks fine to me .

I have had a go at a faded livery a few times. Might sound a bit odd but humbrol 100 ( red brown ) mixed with humbrol 61 (flesh) gives a nice pinkinsh faded colour.
WCML55.68
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by WCML55.68 »

That wee Engine Tender is an exquisite piece of modelling and weathering Alan. it looks just like the real thing and looks just right to me.

Colour has been the bane of many peoples lives for many years. My own take is that if you go down the shops to buy some paint or curtains etc to match the carpet without a sample, it will be totally different when you get home. And thats the same day, let alone something from best part of 100 years before.
Bear in mind too all the different mixes of CR paint at a time when precise colours wouldnt be the science they are today, and all the different factors in applying, weathering and fading.
I know the trouble Ive had trying to mix shades of red sandstone and if youve ever witnessed a tin of custom household paint being made for you, you will be amazed at the colours and quantities of the concentrated pigments added.

The issue of a mistake in a model was raised in the post "The burning question" a couple of years back, and the general consensus of opinion was if you are happy with your work and it looks right to you, then all is well.
Orbiston
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

Is there a drawing for this anywhere?
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by jimwatt2mm »

On p 263 of Mike's wagon book he states :
There is no drawing recording the modification [from mineral bogies], and no reference in the minutes.

Could it be that the modifications were carried out by the sheds involved resulting in considerable detailed variation?

Jim W
Orbiston
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

Thanks Jim - that actually makes it considerably easier!
jasp
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by jasp »

Orbiston wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:36 pm Is there a drawing for this anywhere?
There is a drawing included in the “Wagon Drawings” CD, if you have it.
Alternatively, pm me and I will email a copy.
Jim P
[email protected]
Orbiston
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

Thanks Jim I was looking in the Locomotives CD
Orbiston
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

So I have purchased the Falcon Brassworks Drummond Pug tender etch. And I'm looking at it. At least half of it seems to be something else entirely. Has anyone built this? Any clues?
jasp
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by jasp »

I looked at the Falcon website as I was interested to see what the kit was about - everything was marked “not currently available”
Falcon was, certainly at one time, notorious as lacking in many, and varied aspects, particularly relating to components fitting and ease of assembly. The website is correct in saying these are not for beginners - some might say they are not for experts either.
I would suggest if you have just bought the kit and are unhappy with it, send it back.
I have been toying with producing a master for such a vehicle for sale under the TLM banner - but, don’t hold your breath!
Jim P
Orbiston
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

I was thinking about commissioning a resin body. The outside w irons from Wizard seem spot on so the underframe would be OK.
Jim Summers
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Jim Summers »

For what it is worth, the attached photo shows a model I made very, very many years ago from that kit.
I recall having to fudge a lot, and was not convinced in the end by the tender. But as I say, it was a long time ago, and does, I suppose, prove that a working model to P4 standards of gauge if not accuracy can be built from the etch.

I nearly threw it in the bin when I saw Mike Gilgannon's version, and I have been looking for a photo of that to show how it should be done - in vain, unfortunately, but if anyone has a picture, please let us see it.

JimS
#4 with Caley Pug.jpg
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Orbiston
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Orbiston »

That's useful, Jim. While I'm on here, can anybody explain the two compartments ie the higher and the lower. Photos I've seen seem to suggest they had coal in both sections. So why were there two sections?
Alan K
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Pug Tender

Post by Alan K »

The most plausible reason I've seen is that the front section keeps the coal 'humped' higher to make it easier for the fireman to shovel. Without that cross piece, the same load of coal would be slumped lower right to the rear of the wagon.
I've seen an admittedly post Caley era picture which has a bicycle in the lower rear part!
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