Modelling Paints

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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David Elvy
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Modelling Paints

Post by David Elvy »

Jim MacIntosh,

Earlier this year you wrote a few words of advice about painting models, which primer colour used with which top coat gives the best result.

I would appreciate if you could repost that information to the forum?



Could anyone else who has any other advice on painting kits, paint to use, possible Halfords spray paints which are suitable for Caledonian Railway paint schemes etc please offer their suggestions.

I have embarked on a not insignificant building program to have stock available for an exhibition next year and any time saving advice would be appreciated.

Regards,

David
Jim Summers
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by Jim Summers »

David,

If you are talking car spray, I have used (to my satisfaction if nobody else's) Ford's Ocean Blue over grey primer for locos, and for coaches, Rover Burgundy Red. The latter was approved by Duncan Burton, but I am not sure if it is available nowadays. I haven't used car spray for wagons, so have no recommendations.

I'll let Jim MacIntosh recommend the modelling enamels himself, but his recommendations look reasonable to me.

I will add, though, that looking closely at the Phoenix range at Scaleforum this past weekend, I can't find too much wrong with their colours and they offer the widest nominated Caledonian range, including coach white.


Jim
jim mac
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by jim mac »

David, I am not sure which previous notes you refer to, but to further the debate I have attached a table of the recommended Standard colours.
Caledonian Railway Rolling Stock Colours.doc
(30.5 KiB) Downloaded 751 times
David Elvy
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by David Elvy »

Jim,

The previous message I was referring too was one where you mentioned the results you had found from using different primer colours and the results they gave with the final paint coat.

As an example, for one coach nearing completion I plan to finish it in the all brown livery and will probably use the oxide colour spray primer, for the more traditional livery of lower panels in purple madder with the upper panels in white I am planning to use a white spray primer.
Wagons obviously I have been using the oxide colour spray primer and only giving this a light touch up with the wagon oxide colour supplied by Phoenix.

Does any one have any further suggestions?

Regards,

David
JimG
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by JimG »

elvan4472 wrote:As an example, for one coach nearing completion I plan to finish it in the all brown livery and will probably use the oxide colour spray primer
David,

What brown colour do you intend to use? I've got two rakes of Drummond four wheel stock to paint, hopefully in the not too distant future, so would like some guidance on the shade of brown to use. I would expect to use the oxide undercoat as well.

Jim.
David Elvy
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by David Elvy »

Jim,

I'm not sure yet which brown I will use, my present thought is to use paint from the Phoenix range thinned down using lighter fluid, if some one knows of a suitable car spray colour I would be interested to give that a try of a piece of suitable scrap material.

David
JimG
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by JimG »

elvan4472 wrote:I'm not sure yet which brown I will use, my present thought is to use paint from the Phoenix range thinned down using lighter fluid,
I just checked their web site and they don't do a coach brown. :) I've just checked Jim MacIntosh's livery book again and he refers to a "dull brown" for Cathcart Circle stock in the early part of the twentieth century. Was it a varnished dull brown, or was it brown, dulled by the Glasgow climate?

Jim
David Elvy
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by David Elvy »

Jim,

The top coat I am looking to try is P431 Caledonian Utility Coach Brown, no idea how close to correct this will be?

David
JimG
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by JimG »

elvan4472 wrote:The top coat I am looking to try is P431 Caledonian Utility Coach Brown, no idea how close to correct this will be?
Thanks. I've found it. What a funny web site. If I look under their menu item for Caledonian colours, the coach brown doesn't appear. But if I do a search on the site using "Caledonian", it pops up. I note it is a limited edition, so I will get a tin so that I can have a go at matching it to something in Halfords if the limited run finishes.

Jim.
dumb buffer
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by dumb buffer »

I painted a couple of 4 wheel coaches British Leyland Clove Brown, from a Halfords cellulose spray can, with satin varnish atop. This was in 1992, so it's likely to be unavailable now (so's British Leyland if it comes to that!) I'm sure I chose it as a close match to the Precision Paints colour. However I see that Precision at that time had:-
Utility Coach Brown
Early Coach Brown
B 89 Coach Purple
Purple Brown
In their range, (and I still have the tinlets, plus a sample panel painted while they were new.)
And I couldn't be at all sure whether my Clove Brown matches Coach Purple or Early Coach Brown.
I would in fact defy anyone to tell the difference between Purple Brown and Coach Purple, which are both gloss. Early Coach Brown is virtually the same, but matt.

Allan F
BillAuld
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by BillAuld »

For any model, please consider the use of a black undercoat over the primer. This gives a deeper colour to the topcoat.
It can make an appreciable difference to the finished article.
dumb buffer
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by dumb buffer »

BillAuld wrote:For any model, please consider the use of a black undercoat over the primer. This gives a deeper colour to the topcoat.
It can make an appreciable difference to the finished article.
According to my notes I used a black undercoat in 1992; but I didn't believe them today! Does it really work?

Allan F
BillAuld
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by BillAuld »

I painted two coaches with Peugeot Burgundy. One with black undercoat, the other without. The difference is noticeable.
Also works with blue locos, I'm using Precision Caley Prussian Blue.
JimG
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by JimG »

BillAuld wrote:I painted two coaches with Peugeot Burgundy. One with black undercoat, the other without. The difference is noticeable.
Also works with blue locos, I'm using Precision Caley Prussian Blue.
Bill,

Interesting that Games Workshop recommend using their Chaos Black undercoat as a base for painting.

Jim.
crabapple
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:53 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by crabapple »

Marcel Guest of Manchester make the Railmatch paints.

They will also do small batch runs of these colours in spray cans: enamel or acrylic.

If yu can match your re quired colour to the Railmatch series it is a useful way of getting paint on models.

They or Howes also supply eched primer and under coats such as white, grey and black.

Crabapple
Gympie
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by Gympie »

Just to get this right, first coat a red oxide then followed by a coat of black.

I went to Game Workshop to get their Chaotic Black - only it is now Abaddon Black. The fellow was interested in what I was painting and told him trains, and that I wanted the black as an undercoat to give the next coat a deeper end richer colour. He agreed and said the black undercoat was very effective under metallic paint.

I am building three horse boxes - I posted a photo on another thread. Can anyone give me a paint reference for the body.

I'll post photos when completed.

Gympie.
jasp
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by jasp »

To quote Jim McIntosh's book on CR livery " horse boxes are a similar colour to the older carriages, but have plain yellow lines only ....."
For further info, consult the book.
Jim P
MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: Modelling Paints

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

There's a whole chapter on non-passenger coaching stock livery in the wagon book, which amplifies the material in the livery book.

Best

Mike
Gympie
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by Gympie »

Thanks,

I am in the process of purchasing the book along with a couple of other things - transfer sheets etc. I also need the book to complete the detail.

Can you tell me if there are any paint references. I read the document Caledonian Rolling Stock Colours and it appears that RAL:

RAL 5013 Cobalt 5009 Azure 3005 Wine Red 9002 Grey White 8017 Chocolate or 8016 Mahogany

9002 and 8017 or 8016 are the only colours.

I have used RAL colours before and haven't been over impressed.

Does anyone have anything to add to possible colours in spray cans - Halford equivalents?

Gympie.
Steve Sykes
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by Steve Sykes »

Precision Paints have three locomotive blue offerings in their range. Are any of these considered to be usable for the later lighter blue livery, c. 1912?
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Modelling Paints

Post by jimwatt2mm »

On the subject of Phoenix Paints, I have recently painted some wagons using a tin of CR wagon Oxide I purchased at Perth recently and it seems somewhat browner/less orange than the equivalent Precision Paints version I was using previously and which had reached the 'unusable' stage (it was around 40 years old!). I'm not concerned by this as I am sure that the shade of oxide would vary depending on the mix used and would be subject to sunlight, pollution etc. For this reason I have always been in the habit of adding a little black, white or even red to the final coat of each batch of wagons I build to give a bit of variety.
Colin's wagons (small).jpg
Colin's wagons (small).jpg (58.48 KiB) Viewed 17733 times
These are some of my old resin wagon kits which the late Colin Brady had bought from me and had started to build. i bought them back from his son and have finished them off. The small lettering is a bit crude, but there are no suitable transfers available and yes, i put the load and tare marking on the curb rail instead of the lower plank on some of them! :oops:

Jim W
Steve Sykes
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Re: Modelling Paints

Post by Steve Sykes »

They look really good, Jim. I admire your lettering - I don't think I could do as well. I have found that Railtec do transfers in 2mm scale for Caley goods lettering so I've ordered some to see whether they're worth using.

Steve
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 706
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Re: Modelling Paints

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Steve Sykes wrote:They look really good, Jim. I admire your lettering - I don't think I could do as well. I have found that Railtec do transfers in 2mm scale for Caley goods lettering so I've ordered some to see whether they're worth using.
Steve
Thanks, Steve. I wasn't aware of the Railtec transfers but, having had a look on their website, if what they show is the full sheet, it is a strange combination. While there are plenty CR's in three sizes, there are only enough 'load' markings for one 8 ton and one 10 ton wagon! Also the 'LOCO' markings look too small for most loco coal wagons except perhaps the pre-diagram book ones, but they were lettered 'LOCO/COAL ONLY'. I'll be interested to hear what you think of them.

I'm a bit reluctant to mix transfer and hand lettering as, while the latter of mine might be far from perfect, accompanying it with transfers will only exaggerate the imperfections. I am reasonably happy with what I can achieve - at least I'm prepared to accept it - and, for me, consistency is better than outright perfection!

Sorry if this is drifting off-topic.

Jim
LarryC
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Re: Modelling Paints

Post by LarryC »

Regarding Halford's spray paints, I have finally got round to building a couple of Jim Smillie's 57 ft semi-corridor stock. I used a red primer under Vauxhall Burgundy Red, and it came out very red compared with my other hand painted coaches using Precision Coach Purple; I've marked it down for GSWR/Midland stock.As a result, I bought a couple of cans of Vauxall Satin Red which, on the evidence of the top of the can, look a very close match.

For the white panels, which were painted on the plain coach sides, I have used computer transfer paper, cut to shape. On top of the Coach Purple it looks reasonably good. It is also reasonably quick, as I can do a side of a coach in an hour and a half.

I agree with Bill Auld on black undercoats. I use that when I am painting figures. A black primer undercoat such as Army Painter also helps with details, and lining and shading them. Alternatively, a white undercoat, paints and then a wash with black or dark grey also achieves good results.
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