W irons

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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BillAuld
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm

W irons

Post by BillAuld »

At present I'm building "wee pug" using hornby model body and branchlines chassis.
I'm scratchbuilding the 4 wheel tender and I'm looking for outside W Irons in etched brass.
I know I had these in the past from the CRA but it was some time ago. Are they still available form anybody.
jasp
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: W irons

Post by jasp »

Ian Terrell of NBR developments produced some in spare space on one of his etches but I don't know if these are generally available.
Why not get in touch with Ian?
Jim P
Alan K
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: W irons

Post by Alan K »

Not sure if it's much help, but I too am planning to build what I think is the same wagon, and I found an etched fret at an exhibition which I think is exactly the right size. Trouble is, it was a while ago, there was no packaging (or I've discarded it) and I can't remember who makes it! But it does have 'W irons for NE Hopper' etched on the back of the fret. I Googled that but all I've found is a photo of an unpainted Slater's 20t NE Hopper Wagon which looks like it has these W irons. Might be worth pursuing if you've got the patience!

Alan
dumb buffer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: W irons

Post by dumb buffer »

Model Wagon Company, of fond memory, had a wee etch which came with the castings for the outside framed mineral wagon, but there aren't many of those around now. Bill Bedford does an etch for "NER outside bearing W Irons" which has the sort of thing you want. But he has changed the etch. One that I have has the W Iron legs vertical, but the current picture in Eileens catalogue has the W Iron legs splayed.

Ian Terrel has given me a few etchings, following a discussion I had with him some time ago, and they are excellent. The old ones from MWC were very thin and fragile, but Ian's are full thickness brass. I am hoping to persuade him to do more, as these things are a sine qua non for the modeller of earlier CR vehicles.

If you're contemplating sprung suspension it might, I think, be worth looking at the Bedford units, though

I've heard, but I'm not sure, that Ambis have a suitable etch.

Allan F
lindsay_g
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: W irons

Post by lindsay_g »

I have a set of the NE hopper W irons - trouble is I can't lay my hands on them tonight! - 99% sure they came from C&L. They're the ones that are angled on the outside legs such that they end up parallel with the inner stays. Different size to those that John Boyle once produced - no idea which etch (if either) is the correct size.

Ambis do an etch intended for old 6 wheel coaches but they're the old axle irons as re-used on several goods wagons such as the empty barrel wagon. Lovely etch complete with inner bearing axle carriers and lots of other tasty bits on the etch. I think they may have another etch with outside W irons with straight outer legs but that may be my imagination! Worth scanning their website.

Lindsay
Dave Lochrie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: W irons

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Bill,
I can send you a set of the ex Model Wagon Company outside w-irons which accompanied the 7 ton "bogie kit" (PM me) as Allan says these are very flimsy and are only really suitable if you are happy with inside bearings (MJT for example). I was going to suggest the ex-Bill Bedford set, but I hadn't noticed the design had changed, and I can't put my hands on a pack at present to confirm. I'm not aware of Ambis doing one, but as Lyndsay has said they do a very neat carriage stock (pre-Drummond) outside hornblocks for both 4 (LWOC_4) and 6 (AX9_4) wheeled vehicles.Ambis also do a standard inside W iron which is listed as NBR Medium wagon Axleguards -(AX5_4).

I have not seen the Ian Terrel etches but perhaps we could order a batch amongst us?
PUG TENDER.jpg
PUG TENDER.jpg (139.82 KiB) Viewed 8963 times
I have a drawing for the pug tender if you don't already have that. I have always thought this would be a good seller for a resin body, even if many would end up partnering the Hornby model. A 3D prototype was drawn-up a few years ago but the 3D printing media of the time were not really up to the job (too much re-inforcing and beefing-up for a finescale model), and I not sure that the latest results come close to the quality of the resin wagon kits.
PUG TENDER 3D Model.jpg
PUG TENDER 3D Model.jpg (56.09 KiB) Viewed 8963 times
Dave L
Last edited by Dave Lochrie on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan K
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: W irons

Post by Alan K »

There seems to be an unusual feature at the front end in the 'engine tender' photo. (Incidentally, I believe that they were called 'carts' - tender is a bit too grand!)
There seems to be some sort of panel (the top edge of which slopes down from right to left) which must be part of the wagon as it appears to be inside of the faraway side (with the rounded corner). I can't understand its purpose: it seems to be jutting out over the little platform on top of the dumb buffers. Dave's 3D picture shows a central opening in the front end where the fireman would be able to get his shovel through - and you can see this clearly on some of the photos which are available. Maybe there are two of these panels which form a passageway to this central opening, perhaps to stop coal from 'escaping' onto the line! Anyone seen this before?
When I was looking for pictures of this type of cart with outside axle guards I thought that some didn't have a brake lever at all, but I've realised (shades of the rear sandbox again!) that they were all braked on one rear wheel (you can see the brake block on the faraway rear wheel in Dave's photograph). But just to be awkward, the braked wheel is not always on the right-hand side - I've found photos of 7 of these kinds of carts: 5 were on the right side, and 2 on the left! I suppose the Caledonian didn't classify these as 'wagons', so they weren't affected by the ban on one-side brakes. The brake probably didn't get used much except when uncoupled from the pug.

Alan
BillAuld
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: W irons

Post by BillAuld »

Thanks for the advice and offers guys. Ambis do something that I can adapt.
Would be great if we could get our own organised.
dumb buffer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: W irons

Post by dumb buffer »

Outside W Irons155.jpg
Outside W Irons155.jpg (163.71 KiB) Viewed 8851 times
I thought it might be helpful to see a picture of the available versions. On the left are the Bill Bedford etches, the older ones below, and the current version above. The picture in Eileens catalogue is of the latter. On the right are Ian Terrel's etches, in three versions to cover all eventualities.
All the etches, from both suppliers, have half etched bolt heads, to be punched through. Ian also has an etch for the single lever brake.

I had a chat with Ian recently, and I gather that he will be happy to produce the etchings; and I assured him that there would be a small but steady market from Caledonian modellers. For domestic reasons it will be some months before he can produce any more of these etchings (He has a wife, a real job, and a new house to cope with, and his computer packed up!)

Allan F
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: W irons

Post by tony brenchley »

The outside w-irons supplied with the Model Wagon Company kits were actually made by John Boyle for Ian Middleditch. I have one or two spare etches but as they are near to scale thickness this makes them very flimsy. John probably still has the art work but it is probably best to encourage Ian Terrell for future supplies.

Tony B
Dave John
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: W irons

Post by Dave John »

This shows the bill Bedford version in practice.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_john ... otostream/

Yes, I cheated. The W irons and axleboxes are cosmetic, I carved up a 51 L W iron set to make inside bearing rocking irons. In practice they vanish behind the wheel. The bearings themselves are slaters top hat types run through 2mm on the lathe. I suppose there must be a balance between pure accuracy and a wagon that stays on the rails.
Jim Summers
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: W irons

Post by Jim Summers »

They certainly look the part, but can I ask if you get much resistance from so many inside bearings?
Obviously I have encountered that with large bearings, or I wouldn't be asking!

Jim S
Dave John
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: W irons

Post by Dave John »

They do add a bit of friction, but not so much as to cause the wheels to drag. I do ream them out generously. Personally I find being able to paint the wagon with the wheels out outweighs the disadvantages.
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