Class 670 kit

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
caleyJim
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Class 670 kit

Post by caleyJim »

Sorry for some blatant advertising but just a note to let folk know that Caley Coaches is still trading at this difficult time with good stocks of most things including the new Class 670 0-4-2 kits (CL03). Jim
Graham Tipple
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Graham Tipple »

Can I recommend this kit. It's not completely straightforward but makes a lovely little engine. I'm no engineer, but I managed, even with the clearances between the revolving driving wheel and the slidebar. I have no connection with CC, by the way.

Stay inside (or as they say here on Tyneside, "Divna gan oot") and keep safe, Graham
Dave John
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Dave John »

Ok, I'll have a go at that.

It does say it is for the advanced modeller. I'm just a wagon basher but you only get advanced by trying.
Mike 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Mike 1 »

any pictures?
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

There are a couple of pictures of one built by Jim Summers on the Caley Coaches website, Mike, plus a link to download the kit instructions.

https://caley.com/class670.php

Best

Mike
Graham Tipple
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Graham Tipple »

Here's a pic of mine in mid-paint-job after trying out boiler band transfers (HMRS LNER). It's all a bit distorted by the camera, in reality, everything is reasonably straight.
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Knowing your work is far superior to mine, Dave John, you could easily manage it. The main cosmetic problem is the seating of the chimney and dome. I haven't got them right but life is too short ... I put a Mashima 1012 in the firebox driving the rear driver. I didn't use the suspension alternative as my soldering isn't up to it. I hope my effort as a non-engineering type encourages some to have a go who wouldn't otherwise. Keep safe, folks. Graham
caleyJim
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by caleyJim »

Photos as requested.
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Coronach
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Coronach »

Lovely work, gents!

Davy.
Dave John
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Dave John »

Both very nice models, I have made a start on mine.
John Lindsay
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Thanks Jim and Graham for posting the photos of the class 670 models – I’ve found these very helpful in progressing with mine.

As I move forward with the loco body, my thoughts are turning to painting and lining. I will be trying to represent the loco in the lighter blue livery in the 1910s, but am not sure what to do with the cab front/roof.

Can anyone confirm what the arrangement was for the curved transition between the front and roof? From photographs of locos with this sort of cab, it is clear that the lining continues up the sides over the curved portion; but what happens next is not clear in any I shot I can find.

The best I have found is of CR 1454 on plate 41, page 107 of Jim MacIntosh’s livery book. I can imagine I can see the lining returning over the cab roof at the point of transition between the curve and the roof top. This would imply that the “flat” section behind would be black. The alternative is that the lining crosses over the back of the cab roof and the whole is painted blue (which seems unlikely to me).

Can anyone clarify the position?
Many thanks
John
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Hi John. I had the same dilemma with my 98 class 2-4-0. I came to the conclusion that the colour change came where the cab front curved up onto the roof, but that was based on my own logic rather than any evidence.

Jim W
John Lindsay
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Thanks Jim

Have you any photos of how you approached it?

Cheers

John
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Hi John,

This photo of my model has appeared on here before and shows where I made the separation.
CR 108.jpg
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As I said, that was based on some logic base assumption rather than any hard evidence. However, I have been looking closely, under magnification, at photos of Conner locos in 'The Formative Years' with this pattern of cab and make the following observations.:

The curve between cab front and roof varies between a fairly tight radius and a much more generous one (perhaps depending on the builder?). The cover photo of single No.87 appears to show the lining turning to go across the cab front at about the level I have made it, as does that of No.89 on p108. Both of these have a tight radius curve,

On the other hand, both No. 117 on p119 and No.52 on p122 Have the lining clearly going up over the curve. Both these locos have a larger radius curve to the cab front. I'm left wondering if it depended on the radius of the curve whether the lining went onto the roof. 670 class No.165 on station pilot duties at Glasgow Central in a Kenn Nunn photo of 31/08/21 has the lining going up onto the roof.

Of course, none of this helps with what happens on the roof in these cases!

Jim W
John Lindsay
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Hi Jim

Many thanks for posting the photo and for your research. I'll look at these photos myself and think about it - it will be a while yet before I have to make a decision.

That really is a terrific model you made. I have no idea how you manage it in 2mm! Full of admiration!!

Cheers

John
Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Dave Lochrie »

Cab Front Lining
This is one of those issues that are surprisingly tricky to confirm. Moost three-quarter front views of locomotives with Conner/ Britain cabs are inconclusive due to the natural highlight that occurs exactly where the cab front to roof takes place. Two well known views looking down from overbridges at Perth and Auldbar Road could have solved the dilemma if it were not for the 2-4-0s running tender first on that day!
Apart from the Drummond rebuilds with the Stirling style cabs, I can find very little suggestion that there was anything other than 2 vertilal bands on either side, even on those classes with a more abrupt transition curve. The most convincing evidence "for" can be found on a close-up of 8 foot single No 87 (as featured on the front cover of The Formative Years), but I may be seeing something that isn't really there!
CR No87 .jpg
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CR No1581.jpg
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CR No14A.jpg
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This close-up of No 14A clearly shows where the "roof" formally starts and therefore where the cab front sheet ends. If there ever was a connecting line, it would rarely have been visible which whilst not firm evidence that it wouldn't have been done, renders it unlikely. No14A has clearly been some time since an overhaul judging by the blistered paint on the firebox cladding sheets and the general wear on the cab side sheets, but look at the polished pipework and valve cover?


Dave L
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by jimwatt2mm »

On another, related, subject, that middle photo illustrates the fact that on many (all?) of the mineral 0-4-2's the sandboxes and splashers were lined as one and there was no horizontal bottom line, the lining going right down to the the angle iron between the splasher and footplate.

Jim W
Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Dave Lochrie »

A few more of the most conclusive cab front/ roof photos I meant to attach to the original post.
CR No185.jpg
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CR No1182.jpg
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CR No480.jpg
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And to un-hijack this back to the 670 Class, I offer this photo of CR No677 (I think at Lothian Road?) showing the rear of the cab for a change).
CR No677 LR.jpg
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I haven't started my 670 kit yet but might be tempted to do one with a 4-wheeled tender. The loco chassis would also be suitable for one of the earlier 324 Class engines with the single slide bar arrangement, if Jim is able to supply one separately.
In the "Formative Years" Book David Hamilton states that the first group of these from 1872 were built with the two slide bars but the accompanying photo [Plate 8.33] of CR No324, at Perth in the 1890s, the first engine from the class is actually shown with the single slide bar. There is no suggestion that any were rebuilt.

Dave L
lindsay_g
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by lindsay_g »

That really is a lovely rear shot of a 670, something you don’t see too often. Lots of info to be gleaned from it. The rear of the tender is more or less a dead ringer of the rear of the class 488 I’m building presently. If I were to contemplate build of a 670, like Dave, I’d prefer it coupled with a 4 wheel tender.

Lindsay
Dave Lochrie
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Dave Lochrie »

The picture, for obvious reasons, was earmarked for inclusion on a post on Caledonian staff uniforms but there is lots of useful detail here.
I have never seen the extra toolbox in front of the cab on other 670 Class members, and it does appear to be painted and lined. The opposite side will have the Westinghouse brake pump in this location.
I will reserve any comment on the uniforms here but the foreground PW and signalling details are worthy of comment. The loco (location is probably not Lothian Road) is sat on an full timbered, or interlaced turnout with a run of signalling wires and point rodding in front.
On the point rodding support stools, Stevens & Co had their own distintive design which is available in all scales via ModelU, and whilst used extensively on other railways, especially the L&SWR, rarely appears in Caledonian photos. The very plain design shown here being much more common along with the A frame pattern. You can see the joint flanges to the left of the shunters, and note that the spacing between the roller stools is considerably more than the 6 foot recommended for circular rodding -which could save me some money when adding to my layout and which would have represented an even greater saving to the Caledonian Railway and its shareholders.
Jim Summers
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Jim Summers »

As Lindsay has already said, thank you Dave for a splendid and useful picture of a 670.

And thank you for the remarks on point rodding and stools. I say that with feeling, having spent much of yesterday wrestling with making up some etches thereof.

You alarmed me however that I might need many more of these tricky things when you said the spacing was 6 feet normally. I had been consoling myself with a pitch of 7' 6" or 8", which is what the Caley signalling expert said in 1912. He includes a drawing on p99 which corresponds to those stools seen in your fine photo.

On relating this to my wife, as one does, she commented that at least your stools were socially distant, in imperial terms anyway.

JimS
John Lindsay
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Hi all and thanks for the helpful replies to my question about class 670 cab front lining.

In light of the photos that people have kindly found, I have decided to simply run the line up to the black part of the roof as per photo of 14A .that Dave L posted. I'm off now to continue with the lining process....

From the photo attached, you will see I have tried to model one of the early batch with the smaller sand boxes - I think I will live with the having the six wheeled tender, even though I can't find a photo of an early batch loco with one of these in Caley days.

Cheers

John
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John Lindsay
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Ah - finished - that was fun!

Cheers

John
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ScottW
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by ScottW »

And what a smashing job you have made of it, you must be very pleased with it.
Graham Tipple
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by Graham Tipple »

That's fabulous, John. The paint job is superb. Well done indeed, Graham
John Lindsay
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Class 670 kit

Post by John Lindsay »

Many thanks for the kind words!
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