R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

To assist modellers plan and build a Caledonian Railway layout with the appropriate stock. A list/catalogue of supplies and components is available to members in the Association Resources section of the Forum below.
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tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

Subscribers to the earlier incarnation of the Forum will remember our plan to produce some cast resin bodies for CR wagons. A straw poll at the time revealed that a Pickering traders wagon would be the most popular choice, nobody having produced a kit for one of these in 4mm scale before.

I am pleased to be able to report that a batch of 50 bodies should be delivered to me in early January. This is the total number avaIlable so it will be first come first served. If any are unsold to CRA members we will sell the remaining stock stock from the CRA stand at exhibitions and offer them to members of the other Scottish railway societies.

This is an non-profit making exercise by Williams-Brenchley Enterprises. Mike made the pattern and I arranged the manufacture and will handle the distribution.

The wagon we chose for the project was a 10-ton wagon built for Wilsons and Clyde. This is as near a typical RYP product as we could get and one for which we had a GA drawing. We delierately chose a wagon with cupboard doors makiing it suitable to portray as a coal merchant or colliery-owned vehicle. Photos of the prototype and pattern are attached.

David Blevins kindly provided details of the Wilsons and Clyde orders from the RYP order books as follows:

"The 10 Ton Wagon started to appear in the Order Books from 1898. Wilsons & Clyde changed to a higher capacity 12 Ton Wagon in October, 1902.
Here is a list from the Order Book (dates being when Order placed):-
25/04/1898 50 Built, 10 Tons, Numbered 2143 & Upwards to be lettered “Law Colliery”
01/06/1900 100 Built, 10 Tons, Numbered 2243 to 2342 to be lettered “Glencraig Colliery”
22/08/1900 100 Built, 10 Tons, Numbered 2347 to 2446
27/02/1901 100 Built, 10 Tons, Numbered 2447 to 2546
The Number of the Wagon in the photograph ties up with the date 01/06/1900 (No. 2329).
The Livery for all above wagons is “Bright Brown Oxide” and all were registered with the Caledonian Railway.
One interesting note regarding the Order of 01/06/1900 is that it was recorded that they were to be delivered to “East Parkhead Colliery, Bellshill” presumably for loading Coal for onward shipping, which was not unusual as Coal Merchants would rather have full wagons delivered than receive empty ones.
The Colliery at Bellshill being fairly close to the RY Pickering Works, in Wishaw.

The bodies are complete with solebars and headstocks but need buffers, w-irons, springs and brake gear etc. to complete. Mike is preparing notes on sourcing and using the appropriate components, mainly from 51L range to complete the model. The only work required on the body is to add 4 door hinge bars from plastic rod. The castings allow for these to be fitted and it will be straight forward for anybody with a modicum of modelling talent. We have to confess that the castings as produced are missing one or two bolt heads. These are easy to replace if you are a counter of such things.

The price for all this, for CRA members only, is £8 per body for 1-2 items including postage and packing. I am open to offers for larger orders!

Please let me have your orders or firm expressions of interest as soon as possible to Tony Brenchley, 3 Spinney Road, Thorpe St Andrew, Norwich, Norfolk, NR7 0PW. Cheques to ACB Brenchley please. (Tel 01603 464070 if you need further information.)

Depending on the success of this project we are planning to produce in the future the dead buffer and sprung buffer versions of the standard CR 8-ton mineral wagon and a 6 or 7-ton mineral wagon or bogie from an earlier era. All in 4mm scale. Again expressions of interest for these would be welcome. If this is very strong we might get these going sooner than we have planned at present.

Have a good Christmas and New Year.

Tony B
tony brenchley
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

The photos didn't upload as they were too big. Lets try again.
WilsonsandClyde10tonwagonforum.jpg
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Tony B
Attachments
W&C Patternforum.jpg
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MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

I'm working on the sourcing bit now, folks. As well as the door hinges, you will need to add the end door hinge inside the body and the door catches. I'll produce a few (very few!) instructions for these. You may even see a made up model before too long. I've got nothing to do until I proof read the wagon book.

Complaints of the season to you all

Mike
charles d
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by charles d »

With East Parkhead and Glencraig both owned by Wilsons & Clyde, I wonder if the Glencraig wagons were delivered to East Parkhead to put them on N B metals for the journey to central Fife. East Parkhead was connected to both the Caledonian and N B (Bothwell And Coatbridge) lines as were a number of other pits in the area.

It may have been just for advertising like Archibald Russell who had wagons lettered for individual collieries but seemed to use them indiscriminately around their pits. However I doubt if this was so since Glencraig was so distant from Wilsons & Clydes Lanarkshire pits. Glencraig was a major colliery and, although Wilsons & Clyde were a subsidiary of Coltness Iron Co. their coal (in 1951 at least) was anthracite and steam but not coking so no direct link to the Lanarkshire iron works.

I have a photo of East Parkhead No. 1100 which is a iron (or steel) framed 12 tonner from Pickerings. The wagon looks new and carries a painted date but the last digit of the two digit year is not 100% clear. It is either 00,03 or 09. The photo is numbered 881 in pencil on the back but it carries no other source detail.

There was a photo of a wood framed Pickering 12 tonner in HMRC Journal volume 6 no.2 of April 1968 and shows the livery details of a wagon lettered for Clyde colliery at Hamilton West - in this case lettered as "HAMILTON COLLIERIES" with the wagon number (456) between the two words.

Hope this background helps and best of luck with the venture - unfortunately my rendition of the lanarkshire coal traffic is planned to be set in mid 1950s!

Charles Davidson
Barry Rhys
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by Barry Rhys »

Tony, I'm very grateful to you and Mike for making these available. With such a large choice of Gloucester and Chas Roberts types available to we 4mm modellers, the recurrent need is always for cupboard door Scottish prototypes. I'll send you a PM straight after posting this message regarding my order, but the following question may be of relevance to other interestees (does that word exist?) too, so I'll ask here.

Having said in your opening post that "Photos of the prototype and pattern are attached", I assume you mean that the pattern shown is of a wagon from one of the other batches of Wilsons & Clyde wagons that you list, and not of the prototype wagon No.2329 shown in the photo? Hopefully. I only mention this since No.2329 has 6 bodyside planks, whereas the pattern has 5 planks.

Perhaps you could clarify that, to avoid a particular sinking feeling that an unknowing reader may otherwise experience.

Thanks, Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
Dave John
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by Dave John »

Excellent, many thanks Tony.
JimG
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by JimG »

tony brenchley wrote:The wagon we chose for the project was a 10-ton wagon built for Wilsons and Clyde. This is as near a typical RYP product as we could get and one for which we had a GA drawing. We delierately chose a wagon with cupboard doors makiing it suitable to portray as a coal merchant or colliery-owned vehicle.
Tony,

Is it possible for me to get a copy of the GA to re-draw it to S scale? We have a few Scottish railway modellers in the SSMRS and I'm sure that details of a Scottish PO wagon would be of interest. I'm sorry I can't make use of your 4mm products. :)

Jim.
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

The GA drawings I have came from the HMRS collection many years ago. There was a very limited selection available at the time and as I remember most of these were from the 1900-1902 period and most featured wagons with iron underframes. I will post a list of what I have in due course.

I no longer belong to the HMRS so cannot comment on what is available currently. Perhaps somebody who is still in the HMRS can do some research in that quarter.

Tony B
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

A couple of people have been counting planks on the RY Pickering prototype wagon photos and our model pattern. Courtesy of Mike Williams I have attached 3 photos of RYP wagons with 5 planks. David Blevins kindly provided details of these from the RYP order books.

Photo 1 – “Hamilton Palace Colliery”

01/08/1898 – J.S. DIXON BENT COLLIERY, LTD., GLASGOW ordered 10 Wagons to be Built, 10 Tons, Nos. 201 to 210, painted Brown Oxide with White letters shaded Red. To have “JSD” Monogram on door, and “HAMILTON PALACE COLLIERY” on top plank. Registered with the Caledonian Railway Company.

Photo 2 – “Oakbank Oil Co.”

18/06/1900 – OAKBANK OIL Co. Ltd., GLASGOW ordered 50 Wagons to be Built, 10 Tons, Numbered 100 & upwards, Painted Grey with Black ironwork. Registered with the Caledonian Railway Co.

Photo 3 – “Wilson & Clyde Coal Coy., Ltd.”

25/10/1904 – WILSON & CLYDE COAL, COY., LTD., HAMILTON COLLIERIES ordered 50 Wagons to be Built, 12 Tons, Numbered 451 To 500, Painted Brown Oxide with 2 coats of Black Inside.
Registered with the Caledonian Railway Company.

Tony B
Hamilton Palace Colliery 10-ton wagon forum.jpg
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Oakbank Oil Company 10-ton wagon forum.jpg
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Wilsons and Clde 12-ton wagon forum.jpg
Wilsons and Clde 12-ton wagon forum.jpg (144.41 KiB) Viewed 14281 times
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

As promised - a list of the RYP GA drawings obtained from the HMRS many years ago.

Tony B
List of Pickering General Arrangement Drawings.docx
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MIKEWILLIAMS
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Just a quick note to say that the 12 ton Wilson & Clyde wagons were 16ft 6in long, and the body on sale is 16ft. It's up to your scale eye and/or conscience to distinguish a 1mm discrepancy at either end.
Barry Rhys
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:25 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by Barry Rhys »

Tony, sorry to bother you on here, but I wonder if you could check your private messages (PM) Inbox please - I've just sent a PM regarding ordering some wagon bodies.

Thanks very much, and a Happy Christmas to you and all reading this.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
Paul Reilly
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:21 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by Paul Reilly »

Tony, you have a PM from me also

Thanks

Paul
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

Re. the above emails I have just returned home after a few days away and don't appear to have received these emails but I did get your phone message Neil. Please retry to [email protected]. Thanks
Tony B
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

Apologies - I am a bit computer-dense but I have now figured out how to access my personal messages. Tony B
tony brenchley
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by tony brenchley »

I have now to confirm that the batch of 50 RYP traders wagon castings is fully subscribed. In the unlikely event that the manufacrurers provide me with more than 50 I will post another note to auction the surplus. Thanks to all those who contributed and commiserations to anybody who missed the boat.

Tony B
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 493
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Haven't had time yet to put notes together on sources of bits and the additions needed. Hope to sort it this weekend after proof reading's finished. Don't be tempted to drill down through the hinge mouldings to insert a rod. That's what I had intended, but the hinges break off. You'll just have to cut a rod to fit.

Best

Mike
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 493
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Notes for R Y Pickering Traders Wagon

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Are attached - I've assumed that readers possess a reasonable level of skill.. If anyone has queries or comments, please send me a pm.

Best

Mike
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PO Wagon notes.pdf
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jasp
Posts: 500
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Re: R Y Pickering Traders Wagon in 4mm

Post by jasp »

Mike Williams construction notes suggest Bill Bedford brake gear.
Bill apparently did not provide instructions (surprise?)
Looking for info, the Exactoscale website was recommended: http://www.exactoscale.co.uk/4mmrollingstockinst.html
I am absolutely amazed at the comprehensive detail of the assembly of the brake gear, much of which is applicable to the BB gear.
Many thanks to whowever, at Exactoscale, was responsible for this "magnum opus" - worth a look for anyone building brake gear.
Jim P
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