Next TLM Project

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tony brenchley
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Next TLM Project

Post by tony brenchley » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:53 am

Our next wagon will be a Loco Coal Wagon to a pre-Drummond design and therefore does not have a Diagram Book number.

The wagon is based on the drawing on page 259 of Mike Williams' Wagon Book. This is for a 10-ton wagon with solid buffers and 9' 6" wheelbase. At least 300 of these wagons were built to one order when the Loco Department was struggling to obtain sufficient wagons to carry coal to depots. Mike says that there was just under 1,000 ten-ton loco coal wagons in use in 1910 so this order must have been supplemented by others at some time. Further details are in the book

This wagon had w-irons fixed to the outside of the solebars so some kind of inside bearings will be needed for the models as conventional compensation and spring systems are not suitable. It may be possible to cast the w-irons, springs and axlebox integral with the body moulding. Mike is experimenting with this and if it is practical the wagon will simply need inside bearing compensating units to complete.

As usual I need sufficient confirmed expressions of interest before ordering a batch from the manufacturers. I will be looking for pre-orders of at least 30 wagons. If there is enough interest I will explore the possiblilty of bulk ordering inside compensation units to suit.

Please email me if possible on [email protected].

Tony B

Dave John
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by Dave John » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:53 pm

I'm happy to buy a couple. I have built wagons with internal rocking bearings and cosmetic outside W irons in the past. You do have to take the wheels off the axle, grind the pinpoints off and then put it all back together but that is not very difficult.

tony brenchley
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by tony brenchley » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:32 pm

Unfortunately the level of interest in the loco coal wagon is not really sufficient to proceed with this as the next TLM project.

This then poses the question of what else we could consider for our next kit. On previous occasions a number of people have suggested a cask or empty barrel wagon. There are 2 options, diagrams 12 or 74. If there is sufficient interest I might be able to persuade Mike Williams or somebody else to make patterns. This will have to follow the format of the cattle wagon with 2 sides, 2 ends and a floor to obtain the correct slatted sides and ends.

Steve Parsons, I believe, built one of these with parts made on a Silhouette cutter. Does this mean we have software that could be used to make patterns?

As usual we can only proceed if there is sufficient interest in the form of committed pre-orders. Please let me know how many and of which diagram you would take. If we collect these on the Forum it may be beneficial for everybody to see the level of interest.

I would take 2 or 3 myself of either diagram for the traffic to Blairgowrie in empty barrels for raspberries and maybe even loaaded with full barrels of fruit which would be within the 3 or 6 ton capacity of these wagons. As you will read in a future True Line article Blairgowrie raspberries packed in barrels for jam maiking went to many destinations in Scotland although the bulk of it went south of the border.

If this suggestion is not of interest please let us know what would be. The only limitation is that we do not duplicate anything already made by 51L models. I would also like to have a pre-Drummond ordinary goods wagon.

Tony B

Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:52 pm

I'd be happy to do a pattern for a cask wagon - as Tony says, it would be in five pieces for assembly. Equally, I could do the pre-Drummond goods wagon easily enough. Would anyone be interested in having a set of 'raves' to convert it into a sheep carrier, as in the wagon book supplement?



tony brenchley
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by tony brenchley » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:19 am

Mike - Thanks for the offer to make a pattern for the cask wagon,. I've had an email from David Elvy saying that he and Ross Burns are working on a cask wagon kit in 4mm and 7mm scales. So we won't progress that as a TLM project.

The pre-Drummond goods wagon with optional sheep pens looks a good option. What does everybody else think?

Tony B

Alan K
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by Alan K » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:21 pm

Unfortunately pre-Drummond wagons are too early for me. How about one of the late CR wagons, like the Diagram 87? These would have been around in LMS days and the steel underframe version could conceivably have reached BR days.


Jim Summers
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by Jim Summers » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 pm

Not often I would disagree with Alan K, but I fancy the pre-Drummond wagon, or two, or three.


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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by iainkirk » Tue May 01, 2018 2:13 pm

Alan K wrote:Unfortunately pre-Drummond wagons are too early for me. How about one of the late CR wagons, like the Diagram 87? These would have been around in LMS days and the steel underframe version could conceivably have reached BR days.

And seconded frae the Padgate jury... 8-)
May we have the clarity to see our work, the courage to embrace it, and the capacity to discharge it.
Robert Fripp

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Re: Next TLM Project

Post by lindsay_g » Tue May 01, 2018 11:50 pm

Now, how often is it the case that you model something then a kit arrives? If the pre Drummond Goods TLM wagon proceeds then I've unfortunately got going too soon and built one to the 1659 drawing and another fixed side wagon per the image on P144 of the Wagon book as below :
Pre Drummond Wagons.jpg
Pre Drummond Wagons.jpg (68.83 KiB) Viewed 12941 times
Yup, still more detail to be added to both but they are nearly there. Things to point out beyond a TLM resin body are :

- the buffers are the 3 bolt self-contained variety that are available in model form from MRD. However, those attached to the wagons in the image are just a push-fit so far and "as they come" - there is work needed to get the sprung buffers sitting uniformly in all respects. They're not cheep items, so we should expect better.
- everthing else to finish the model is available on the market except the brake gear. That is a wooden blocked shoe held in a curved arm, operated from a square ended lever longer than any etches available (I think), then there's the lever guide. I personally find the brake gear the biggest pain in the butt to model from scratch - just maybe a personal hang-up.

If anyone is dismayed that the 10t Loco Coal wagon wasn't pursued, I've built three recently from a Silhouette Cutter file and will make that available to all members via the Forum soon (sorry non-CRA members - you just gotta join to get full benefits of membership).



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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by jimwatt2mm » Wed May 02, 2018 7:30 pm

Is this the same wagon as this Ken Werrett drawing from the MRN? (sorry, don't have a note of which issue).
7ton low goods wagon web.jpg
7ton low goods wagon web.jpg (46.88 KiB) Viewed 12910 times
My 2mm etch of it:
7T low etch web.jpg
7T low etch web.jpg (57.26 KiB) Viewed 12910 times
And the finished article:
2012-12-08-362.jpg (87.4 KiB) Viewed 12910 times
It's aready been pointed out to me that the 'United' livery behind is wrong!

Jim W

tony brenchley
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by tony brenchley » Mon May 07, 2018 9:29 am

Pre- Drummond Wagon to K Werrett drawing.

I built this wagon many years ago. The correct buffers with stepped bases were not available at the time and this is fitted with the standard turned brass buffers that I used then. The w-irons, springs and axleboxes were all from plastikard. How patient we were in those days.

Later in the early 1970s Bernard Weller, of P4 fame, was asking for drawings of buffers as possible additions to the Studiolith range. I gave him a copy of the buffer drawing that accompanied the drawing of this wagon in an old Model railway News. A pattern was made by a chap called Roger Farrant and a few sample castings were made and then it disappeared.

At the recent Scalefour North exhibition I asked Hubert Carr of Model Railway Developments where the pattern for the old CR buffer castings in his range came from. He told me he got it from Bernard Weller!

And so the world goes round. But it is good to know that the pattern in in safe hands. Unlike Mike Gilgannon's patterns for the CR wagon and carriage components that I have been unable to locate after many years searching.

Tony B
Pre-Drummond wagon Forum.jpg
Pre-Drummond wagon Forum.jpg (347.86 KiB) Viewed 12859 times

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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:27 am

Re: Next TLM Project

Post by Craig » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Hi Tony, Mike,

I would be interested in 3 pre-Drummond goods wagons, with the 'raves' to convert into sheep carriers please.


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